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Achieved Collection - Gokaden

Jean

By Jean
in Nihonto

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gauze3539 Enthusiast

gauze3539

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Dirk,

 

For me no more chase, I have finished collecting. I am no more in the market. I had considered at one moment selling this collection and collect the Yamato Gokaden (Hosho, Tegai, Shikakke, Senjuin, Taima), but too much hassle. :)

That sounds like the god level of collecting nihonto to me. Jean! Nice to see your collection. It's amazing!

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Surfson Grand Master

Surfson

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Jean, I just stumbled across this post and find it inspiring.  I have had the same thought about collecting the gokaden.  For one reason, I thought it would be a good reason to really learn about all of the original groups in each school, learn the geography of the different schools, sources of iron, styles of work etc.  I will keep in mind your generous offer for a visit as I do travel to europe periodically.  I can't help but wonder what will happen when you come across a even more interesting example of one of the schools.   Will you trade up your example of that school?  I collect guitars too, and the classic joke is....how many guitars does a collector need?   The answer is....just one more.   Congratulations on assembling an exemplary collection.  Cheers, Bob

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Jean

Jean

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Bob,

 

They are my last swords. I will be unemployed at the end of the month till my retirement (in 2 years and a half). No one will hire a guy like me at 63,5 years old.

Won't get any indemnization before 6 months. Money will be scarce. But I have a buffer stock on which I shall live. When time comes they all be for sale. Back to the Market :)

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Ken-Hawaii Grand Master

Ken-Hawaii

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No one will hire a guy like me at 63,5 years old.

Good grief, Jean! I just turned 69 a couple of days ago, & am still working my okole off! That's because I own my consulting company - why don't you do the same? 

 

I decided I didn't want to work for anyone else, & started my company 29 years ago. I can't retire until my wife does, so now I just work on projects I enjoy. I'll be happy to give you ideas on starting up, if you're interested.

 

Ken

 

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Jean

Jean

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Thanks Ken,

 

I am going to disappoint you Guys and break my Saint image :). I don't want to find a job, I am very happy the way I live and hope nobody will have the stupid idea of hiring me.

 

It is quite difficult to launch a Company in France because of taxes. As soon as you have launch a Company in France, even without any activity your have to pay taxes. Companies are the milk cows of our Society. As unemployment is thriving in France (more than 10%) French Gvt and local administrations are taxing a max the companies to finance their increasing social expenses.

 

Our National Budget is in deficit and has been for more than 30 years, the famous French social model. Some people with all the different social programs/helps earn more staying home than working.

 

I spend my time between reading a lot, freemasonry, Nihonto, fly fishing and am very happy like this

 

Furthermore, my previous salary prevents me from working for less than 6k€/month LOL.

 

So I am afraid I am going to benefit from the French social model :) it will mean less restaurant and swords but anyway I must absolutely go on diet for a few months if I want to reach retirement age....

 

More seriously, I have found only one add for my kind of job in 3 years and there were more than 50 candidates...

image.jpg

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Shugyosha Grand Master

Shugyosha

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Jean my friend you should believe it, In all my years of watching members collect. I've seen very  few have such a thought out selective plan such as yours. The time taken shows great patience with no hurry to complete, far and few are such collection.  

 

I agree with Stephen - a great plan, well executed.

 

I wish I had a similar direction for my own collecting.

 

Best,

John

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estcrh Veteran

estcrh

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Thanks Ken,

 

I am going to disappoint you Guys and break my Saint image :). I don't want to find a job, I am very happy the way I live and hope nobody will have the stupid idea of hiring me.

 

 

I spend my time between reading a lot, freemasonry, Nihonto, fly fishing and am very happy like this

 

 

So many people never learn this valuable lesson....enjoying what you worked hard for in the first place.

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

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Hi Jean

You and I have discussed this before and I think are in agreement. I had planned to retire when I was 63 in 2017 but a few months back decided to bring it forward by a year so will stop end of 2016. I wont lie and say it isn't a scary prospect but I reached the point where the difference between leaving earlier was not siginifcant enough to make me want to stay. I sort of feel 46 years in industry is enough (for me) and it is time to let someone else take on the new challenges (while I take on some of my own :) )

I also have reached a collecting plateau and have largely what I hoped to have. I am not sure whether I am more focussed or less disciplined than you having focussed on very different areas than yourself, but I am largely content with what is here.

Looking forward to doing those things I always wanted to but career got in the way.

Lets swap notes and become old disgacefully together :glee:

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SwordGuyJoe Grand Master

SwordGuyJoe

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Paul and Jean,

I applaud your collections, but more over, your ability to say "I'm done". A few years ago, I decided to focus on top-flight gendaito, so I researched the top smiths and schools of the time to decide which I liked most. This process was great and once I settled on the school, I liquidated my collection of good to very good swords and bought my first exceptional example. Since, I've made a ton of progress and many people could say that I've done enough (save very few smiths, unless one considers the entire "family tree" down to every current smith). The problem is, that I still don't feel done! What's better than one fantastic example of a smith's work? Two! Perhaps it's my personality of acquisition or that retirement is a ways down the line for me :dunno:

 

Hats off gents.

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

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Hi Joe

Never say never at the moment I either havent seen something that I felt would add to what I had or (and more often) Things I thought would enhance my collection I couldnt afford. Take a look at the Rai Kunimitsu Tanto on Nihonto.com. I saw that in Japan before Fred bought it and absolutley loved it. If ever I had the means (which I wont) I would have loved to add that to my grouping..

I think you come to accept that there is a limit to how many swords you should hold in a collection When that point is reached is a very personal thing and does change over time. At some point the responsibility to care for what you have begins to become more important than adding to it.

Jean has done a great job putting his Gokaiden collection together, and deserves great credit for his focus and his hard work in making it happen.

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Brian

Brian

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You guys who earn $'s and Euros and GBP have every chance to buy good swords if you are patient and save hard. Even putting away $500 a month will get you there in no time at all.

Those in other countries with currency worth 1/15th of a Euro...not so much.

It is true that the cost of living is less in countries where you earn less. So someone who takes home $2500 a month has a lesser cost of living where he lives. He might even be comfortable. The problem is.....the price of swords does not adapt to the cost of living. It is internationally priced, the same for everyone. No matter if you earn $'s or Euros or Rands or whatever. So for him, a $10,000 sword is 5 months total take-home pay. Without him paying for his house, car, medical, food etc. So even with careful planning....it is mostly out of reach. Or at least a purchase that involves years of saving and not months.

For these people, the "one great sword is a collection" is probably more feasible.

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

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Hi Brian

I think in my collecting career I have seen two swords that would fall in to the "1 sword is a collection" catagory. If the possiblity arose to buy it would I sell everything I had and then try and find more to do it? I doubt it. Not because it wouldnt be worth it but I think I would lack the courage to do it. As it is consolidating and condensing a collection to a few good pieces as Jean has done takes a lot of commitment and in some cases courage.

The problem of living in a low cost environment is a difficult one to overcome when dealing in globally priced objects. While I think we are very lucky that much of the best in this field remains affordable (just) when compared to other artwork it is still a major obstacle.

I dont think there is an easy answer. I wonder if wherever we are we are ever truly satisfied as collectors? I have been very lucky and gone a lot further than I ever I dreamed I would over the many years I have been doing this but I still look with envy at swords I see in other collections and wish I could include them in mine. I cant, so have to be content with what I have and value it for the effort it took to obtain it in the first place and its beauty which has nothing to do with it's financial worth

(Sorry starting to sound sanctimonious, I'll shut up!) .

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truelotus Collaborator

truelotus

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You guys who earn $'s and Euros and GBP have every chance to buy good swords if you are patient and save hard. Even putting away $500 a month will get you there in no time at all.

Those in other countries with currency worth 1/15th of a Euro...not so much.

It is true that the cost of living is less in countries where you earn less. So someone who takes home $2500 a month has a lesser cost of living where he lives. He might even be comfortable. The problem is.....the price of swords does not adapt to the cost of living. It is internationally priced, the same for everyone. No matter if you earn $'s or Euros or Rands or whatever. So for him, a $10,000 sword is 5 months total take-home pay. Without him paying for his house, car, medical, food etc. So even with careful planning....it is mostly out of reach. Or at least a purchase that involves years of saving and not months.

For these people, the "one great sword is a collection" is probably more feasible.

sigh ... that's absolutely correct ...  I lived in Indonesia and swords like those are just a dream ... my monthly salary is even less than $2000 / month, since our currency dropped more than 40% against USD since last year

 

you really get my point here - one great sword is feasible ... after years and years of saving T_T ... for now I must be satisfied with low class nihonto

 

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MAXBLISS888 Collaborator

MAXBLISS888

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sigh ... that's absolutely correct ...  I lived in Indonesia and swords like those are just a dream ... my monthly salary is even less than $2000 / month, since our currency dropped more than 40% against USD since last year

 

you really get my point here - one great sword is feasible ... after years and years of saving T_T ... for now I must be satisfied with low class nihonto

 

 

One nihonto is better then none... :)

 

I am studying and learning and hope to get one in a few months times...when I am ready and know enough...

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truelotus Collaborator

truelotus

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I have to admit this is the very first time I see the true Gokaden side-by-side - in ONE frame

truly an amazing collection, and we do benefit from it - especially for beginner like me, which can clearly see which one got slender sugata, high shinogi apart from imagination from books

If you don't mind, Jean - would you mind adding measurement of each sword ? and detailed pictures of each sword so we and future nihonto enthusiasts can benefit from your huge effort

and it will be forever remembered as your legacy here :D

thanks in advance

Donny

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Jean

Jean

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Ryokai - Juyo Token

 

Ryokai is a smith  apart in the Yamashiro Rai school, even NBTHK hesitates sometimes to classify some of his works in Rai school. You will notice that he is the only smith in the Rai school not to use the Rai name and the kanji Kuni in his name, same for his lineage, his son Hisanobu and grandson Nobukuni. In fact Ryokai swords are either Yamato influenced or Rai oriented.

Compare to Yamato Tegai, Ryokai hada has very fine ko nie, sugata is slender and usually his swords have a strong sori. His hada is characterised by the mix of itame/ko itame and masame or itame nagare and a shirake utsuri, some fine chikei can be found. In the ha some ashi can appear and ko choji, hotsure. The nioiguchi is tight and somewhat subdued.

A comment from NBTHK on a Ryokai sword:

" in short, the jiba is not as bright and clear as we would expect it from a Rai work. So the tachi is a work of Ryokai who was a Yamashiro smith too. As mentionned, the jiba of for example Kunitoshi, Kunimitsu and other Rai smiths would be clearer and brighter, the nioiguchi would be wider and more nie and hataraki would appear within the ha."

Document1.docx

K-ryoukai-01_01.jpg

20150808_121205.jpg

hada1.jpg

DSC_2916.JPG

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