A Question On A Newly Bought Tsuba

[gauze3539]

Hi. Samurais!

 

I have a questions on a very exciting newly acquired tsuba from a Japanese Ebay seller. By study so far, I still cannot distinguished what I am buying. This was the one I was looking for the many years. To my personaly taste, this looks simply crazy nice so decided to put it on new koshirae for my shinto regardless what it is where it came from. This tsuba reminds me the extremely strong samurai confidence and spritualism. I basically like Kiku gata tauba very much but have never seen a powerful kiku gata tsuba like this. Could anyone figure out which school and circa and possibly motivation for this? I feel it's early edo and one of those school; Owari, kyo sukashi, but it's still hard to know with my knowledge. Also the motivation seems somehow related to Buddhism or spiritualism if I am not wrong. Can anyone have any idea for this? I love this tsuba soo much and I've never seen this crazy looking tsuba so far except few crazy looking higo tsuba. Thank you very much.

 

Jason C

[Thierry BERNARD]

Hi Jason

 

unfortunately i am not very confident about the authenticity of this tsuba, it look like a chinese cast copy!!!

[gauze3539]

Wow. Really? Did Chinese fake tsuba came up to this level? Can I ask you which point of it makes it look like a cast tsuba? Rust? It's true that the patina banormally dark and rust is suspicisous. I am looking at the weight as 91grams for the size of tsuba 74x64. This might indicate it's a cast iron tsuba. At this moment, I just reciieved a real purplish iron tsuba and this is super heavy. It's sad if it's cast iron because I like the looking a lot. Is everything on this tsuba shows cast iron tsuba characteristics? Thanks

[Marius]

Tsuba is very crude, the seppa dai is awkward, the iron is full of pinholes (burst pockets of air in the casting process). Doesn't have to be Chinese, but we'd rather not  discuss the provenance of cast tsuba. There are cast fakes of much better quality. This is one is pretty bad, I am sorry. 

[gauze3539]

Ok. Thank you very much guys. It hasn't been shipped so I think I can cancel it. Ah..... So hard to find the perfect fittings I like.

[Marius]

Yes, it is hard, especially when buying on eBay

[gauze3539]

You're right. I know the ebay is not good place but I still believe one day I would get a treasure from ebay at the cheap price from unknown sellers who don't know what they have. But I think I still need to go much further to be that level. Thanks

[Brian]

What the sellers know about their items is irrelevant. It is the fact that 5,000 buyers out there do.

 

Brian

[gauze3539]

Yes. But i think it all depends on how the lister list though. I know I don't ignore 5000+ buyers eyes but If the main photo is not taken well, shades etc actually could loose the attention from potential buyer. Guess what happened? I bought a mushazu fuchi ( very resemble to goto's musha zu quality) at $50 that should be above $300. Also, I just received now a very nice edo tsuba at $45 that should be sold at least $250. This is the main reason why I do ebay for the fittings but I agree with you that it's very imppossible to get a real "treasure". To me, ebay is the primary market that can never be ignored because I know ebay's big potential power although the chance of jackpot got already lower and lower. But this time, I would just ran to Gery's website and buy the tsuba from there.

[Bob M.]

This for sale on Fred Weissburg's site -http://www.nihonto.com/rh469.html

 

Compare and contrast ?

 

Bob

[Ed]

"By study so far, I still cannot distinguish what I am buying."

 

Obviously, so just as a learning experience, take a long look at your tsuba and relate it to junk.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, I would like to see those other great deals you got on e-bay.

[Brian Ayres]

Spend the money and get the papered one! It is close enough that at a glance it might have been the one used to make the copy. Just think how much more you will love it than the copy!

[Stephen]

when i first seen that on ebay i thought a bunch of washers were welded into a tsuba, nice to see Freds.

[SwordGuyJoe]

And Fred is awesome to deal with! I'd sell your eBay "treasures" and get Fred's if you really like it.

[gauze3539]

This for sale on Fred Weissburg's site -http://www.nihonto.com/rh469.html

 

Compare and contrast ?

 

Bob

Hi Bob. Oh wow! This is the one shot best study resorces! I think I would get it if that's still available.

[gauze3539]

And Fred is awesome to deal with! I'd sell your eBay "treasures" and get Fred's if you really like it.

Hi. Goe. Yes. I think I like that a lot. I don't need to sell anything I got. What I got from the ebay is all amzing things at the price I paid.

[gauze3539]

Spend the money and get the papered one! It is close enough that at a glance it might have been the one used to make the copy. Just think how much more you will love it than the copy!

Hi. Brian. Yes sir. My heart is beating fast after I saw this.

[gauze3539]

"By study so far, I still cannot distinguish what I am buying."

 

Obviously, so just as a learning experience, take a long look at your tsuba and relate it to junk.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, I would like to see those other great deals you got on e-bay.

Actually, the one I just received has amazing quality as it is. I think it's made out of tekkotsu . It has strong purple-lish patina on it. Also has signature that I need to study. As you words, I check it out and I found the carving is very sharp and crispy that does not appeared on the fake one. One thing I learn big is the even if the hunreds of years passed from any quality tsuba born, the time can't wholly crudely dull off the carvings and edges.

[gauze3539]

Thank you very much for everyone! You guys made me return the BS and spanked me to stand right in front of this original tsuba! What a Eureka it is guys!! :)

[Marius]

Nobody here wants to spank enthusiasts   One advice that is being given to people who start with this hobby is to buy books first. There are so many publications with great photographs. You will soon learn that your current ideas about tsuba (eg "sharp and crisp carving is proof that the tsuba is not fake") are simplifications.

 

Don't be shy, show us your other purchase, maybe there will be something to learn from.

 

Good luck   

[Henry Wilson]

Books first are important, but also I think you need something to study as well because after all it is the fittings that are the impetus for buying the books. If you want to buy something, sticking to bonafided dealers, looking in the sales sections on this board, as well as buying something that catches your eye that you can afford is additional advice that I would give.

[Marius]

Henry, I respectfully disagree, to an extent at least

 

I think books might allow Jason to develop a preference for a certain group/school. That makes a purchase very rewarding.

 

When I have started collecting, I have gone the eBay way, i.e. I have bought many low-end pieces. Then I started to buy books. I was lucky to have books with great photography (like Sasano's Sukashi Tsuba). I have sold all my crap and I have begun buying really good tsuba (including some great pieces from yourself     )

 

I agree, books are not everything, and one needs to hold a tsuba to appreciate it, but they are the best start. 

 

Jason, here is a good list. Since you won't buy all, feel free to ask for opinions on these books:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/reading.htm

[Soshin]

Hi Jason,

 

Many people start this hobby with buying things on eBay so don't worry about it.  Fred Weissberg is great to deal with and has a nice website (http://www.nihonto.com) but I am sure he is very busy at the San Francisco Japanese sword show this weekend.  Grey Doffin has a good website (http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/) for Nihonto and Tosogu books but him like Fred are both busy with the San Franciso Japanese sword show this weekend.  My website (www.tsubaotaku.com) has a wealth of free information along with publication quality photos of each piece.  Since I am not at the show I am running a "make me a deal sale" for anything on my website for the month of August.  I have already made one good deal.  Take care and do share with us other pieces you have picked up on eBay if you have time.          

[gauze3539]

Hi.

Muriuzsk! I would start the new thread about two tsubas I got from Ebay. They are both togerther within 2 degit price. You and Henry are right that I am more of guy you just explained. I can't be patient reading books without looking any "real" things. In an Asian proverb, it says " 1 seeing is better than 100 times of hearing." I am a strong supporter for this words and this habit actually formed when I collect WW2 stuffs for many past years. When I start this hobby, I start off from the complete 0 experience of this thing. I've never see a real nihonto or tosugu before and never attended for any show. Moreover, to me, I tend to get loose the interest if I don't see the real things. So I had to buy things first. So now I have 2 shintos and many set of fuchi kashiras, menuki and about 4 tsuba. While I buy those, I made 3 big mistakes. The first, I bought full koshiraed Showa monoblade to ( Seki Kanemoto) and fake Chinese blade and this tsuba subsequesntly. But I was able to manage all of it so I didn't get any financial demage from my own lack of knowledge.

 

As Henry mentioned, I needed anything to see and touch and feel. I know this approach might put me into some dangerous situation but I didn't mind to hit some pitfalls. And my personality likes this way a lot. As Murisuzk said, when I get on the level to understand things a lot, I could easily sell the bad things off at any time of the future and the time will also tell me which one I should keep and not.

 

Now, however, It's the time for the books to leap my knowledge. I seeiuosely feel I need book though. I was passionated on Markus Sesko's books initially but I think I need to folow this guidline root. And thank you for the list.

 

I should be at the show if I didn't get a sudden family issue. I soo wanted to visit the show and at leastone have a chance to see tokuho and juyo grade stuffs. . I must go SF show next year.

[gauze3539]

Hi Jason,

 

Many people start this hobby with buying things on eBay so don't worry about it. Fred Weissberg is great to deal with and has a nice website (http://www.nihonto.com) but I am sure he is very busy at the San Francisco Japanese sword show this weekend. Grey Doffin has a good website (http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/) for Nihonto and Tosogu books but him like Fred are both busy with the San Franciso Japanese sword show this weekend. My website (www.tsubaotaku.com) has a wealth of free information along with publication quality photos of each piece. Since I am not at the show I am running a "make me a deal sale" for anything on my website for the month of August. I have already made one good deal. Take care and do share with us other pieces you have picked up on eBay if you have time.

Hi. David.

I Just checked your website. Among others. the Owari tsuba really is amazing. My next collection would be a owari tsuba like this one and I'd definately look for your stuffs. I sucessfully made a deal with Fred for this crazy tsuba and he already took it off from the inventory although he was super busy at the show. I am sooo happy for getting this tsuba. I will ask identification about two tsuba I acquired by a great deal and will bring the link down to here soon. Thanks.

[Brian]

You did well getting that tsuba from Fred. It's a lovely piece.

Make sure you tell him the sale came from the NMB.

 

Brian

[gauze3539]

Hi. Brian.

 

Thanks. I am soooo happy fornthat tsuba. To my brain, this is the best by far. I've already told him that the samurais in NMB sent me to Fred. By the way, I posted a thread for two new tsuba questions . It's here guys.

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17341-hi-questions-on-the-two-tsubas/