Bohi Or Bobi?

[Bugyotsuji]

Recently doing some translation work, I noticed that I was getting different answers from different people and different books on certain words.

 

For a Japanese person it is simple to read and understand this 棒樋  without vocalizing it. 

 

Any translator into Romaji though, has to write Bo-hi or Bo-bi, choosing either one or the other, in the knowlededge that it might become a textbook influencing the future.

 

Nagayama Kokan's book says Bobi, and the only example where -hi is used in there is with the groove in a Naginata, ie Naginata-hi.

All of his other usages in the book, The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords, such as Futasujibi are -bi.

 

An illustrated book by Gakken is more explicit, but different again, giving

1. Bohi

2. Soebi

3. Tsurebi

4. Futasuji-hi

5. Koshibi

 

Recently I came across the word jimon. Is this the popular word for activity in the ji? Someone corrected me and said no, that there is ji, and jigane, and there is hamon, but no jimon per se. It sounds funny, he said. I was advised to change them all, which I did. When the proof came back they had all been changed back again to jimon.

 

Do you read the nakago date as Nen Gatsu Hi or Gatsu-bi or Gatsu-jitsu?

 

There was more, and more controversial, but perhaps this isn't the place to get into too much detail; I was just hoping to discuss the lie of the land in general. Other members may have better examples.

 

When I was told that there is no final agreement on many words within the sword community in Japan, then it was that I began to understand the pressure on me or everyone to 統一 'to-itsu' (unify/standardize), ie come up with a standard word that we will all stick with, for the purposes of this one publication anyway.

 

Is there a fear that troublemakers will step in and begin to ask more and more difficult questions if they see a chink in the chain fence?

 

Is this a difference between east and west Japan, Kanto and Kansai, or is there some other factor at work? Is it a function of whoever is chairman of the local sword society? Does each society deveop certain word habits?

 

My sword teacher says that some sword experts in Japan are sticklers for correct usage, and their opinion can sway everyone else in the near vicinity. I suspect that Japan is on the other hand a very forgiving society, where no-one will pick you up for mistakes, unless you are unlucky in who you meet. There is a tension around swords, though, manners being extremely important, for the sake of safety and respect for tradition at the very least.

 

Is it a matter of 99 smilers and forgivers and one red-faced, overworked policeman?

 

The floor is open...

[Jean]

Piers,

 

I thought Guido told me once it was futasuji and not futatsuji

[Bugyotsuji]

Already caught it, Jean. Many thanks.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I'm just very beginner as Japanese language student so I can't offer much assistance. I'll give you my thoughts before the big guys chime in.

 

I'll show in hiragana what I mean. Zusetsu Nihonto Yogo Jiten is my glossary bible, as it has readings in kanji, hiragana and romanji. Bô hi - 棒樋 - ぼうひ is the only one written with ひ hi in hiragana. Rest of the bo hi types in terminology is written usually with び bi. However when categorizing then ひ is usually used. For example, varieties of hi 樋の各種 - ひのかくしゅ.

 

As you ask for the day 日 hi. Then it's ひ in hiragana in basic form but for example in weekdays it's bi び (yôbi ようび). I didn't know the English name for this reasoning but I found Wikipedia entry on Rendaku: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Jussi, good luck with your Japanese studies. It's really fascinating, isn't it. Your bible sounds like a useful discovery.

 

Somehow we have to get exposed to Japanese as much as possible and pick up the rules between the lines. I have heard it said that very young children pick up their mother tongue pretty quickly, even by the the age of three, but it's when they enter the classrom and get laughed at by others     that they start learning the exceptions to the rules.

 

Over the years I have had too many J friends to count, but of those there is only one who would stop me and actually correct my language usage. A funny guy, but his Japanese was particularly delicate and deliberate, and when he spoke it was as if he was enjoying expensive French cuisine.

 

Sometimes I feel really confident in Japanese and then the next moment I find myself suddenly completely out of it. Well, that happens in English too!

 

One fascinating thing for me, though, is watching two Japanese disagreeing over the accent to a word, for example. Like meeting a Japanese person who dislikes fish, It releases me from the pressure of some kind of heavy concept and frees me up to enjoy things a bit more.

 

OK, I'm waffling. I'll get my coat!

[Bugyotsuji]

PS Great article on rendaku, Jussi.

 

One good learning one for me was my mix-up between Kosame and Kozame.

[IanB]

Piers,  Just out of interest, Koop & Inada, in 'Japanese names and how to read them' describe this procedure as nigori 濁, which means 'impurity' or 'turbidity' apparently. Compared to the mutilations that occur in English, the Japanese changes are really a very minor. Think of names like Towcester (pr. TOWSTER),  or the infamous Featherstonehaugh (pr. Fanshaw). 

Ian Bottomley

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, Ian, very true. People's names, and place names here in Japan can be a nightmare too, understood only by the select few.

 

Nigoru also means "voicing", and it happens with English loan words too.

 

A word like 'news' has a voiced Zzzz buzz at the end in English, but the Japanese have removed that to make it sound like, not nyuuz, but nyuuss.　De-voicing? They do it with bag, (baggu) which becomes back, (bakku) and bed/bet beddo/betto. A 'close-up' shot becomes a 'cloze-up', on the other hand.

 

But getting back to Jigane for example. Someone suggested today that it might be the Tokyo word for Jihada!