When The Collecting Is Over

[Davis]

Marius

I hadn't realised that Chris had covered this before.  Thanks.

 

Peter

I agree with every point.  I might also add that a museum repository will tell you more about that museum than it's public display ever will.  Scholarship has waned............  I remember the first keeper/curator I met during the 1960's.  It was at a London museum and I had taken along a sword seeking information.  It was early morning and I hadn't made an appointment.  An elderly gent greeted me like a long lost friend, he was at least fifty years older than me.  Full of enthusiasm and free with his knowledge, we spent the entire day together touring the building.  Very enjoyable.

 

My most recent encounter was with a young woman giving a talk on the "Edo Period".  She held handwritten notes and read straight from them without looking up.  We were then showed a shingunto which she told us was typical of the swords worn by samurai at that time.....

 

With regards to disposal.  Auctions are an option but the right auctioneer, right sale and timing are crucial.  Some examples of past sales:-

 

The first example was a sale held many years ago and from memory the vendor was alive at the time. He was a WW2 veteran, collector and author. His collection was split between two auctioneers, one in London and the other in Sussex.  The best of the collection - ancestral blades in military mounts went to London and the remainder, gendaitos etc., went to the specialist in Sussex.  Nice catalogues, good lot descriptions and well advertised in advance etc.,  This collection sold well.

 

The second example was a collection held in more recent times.  This sale took place a considerable time after the owners death,  the 30 plus swords had been in storage many years before coming to market.  They were good swords but in poor condition.  The lot description  for each was virtually identical and incorrect.  The sale was poorly advertised.  This collection was given away.

 

Final example was not a collection but a single sword that appeared in a general sale. Described as a " Japanese Officers sword est £150 - £200".  No doubt consigned by an elderly veteran or his relatives.  What the auctioneer failed to mention was that the blade was 600 years old and was very well preserved.  Fortunately it was spotted and a good price had to be paid for it.  A dealer later had it on offer for just under £5,000.

 

Mick

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Thank you Peter for your insightful comments. As a scholar and anthropologist you put the context of the determining forces into sharp focus. I suppose the unknown is the strength of those forces at work and at what speed the impacts will take place. It seems to me that without collectors, broadly defined, there would be no museums at all. As long as the ego and sense of history of the well off collector is stroked, the physical institutions will not disappear though they may undergo some almost unrecognizable changes. As I understand it Seattle now has a guitar museum thanks to the interests of a Mr. Big at Microsoft. Who would have thunk it?

 Arnold F.

[jesse]

I'm lucky, my kids are already fighting over who gets what sword.  They put little sticky notes to the back of the saya claiming ownership.

It's pretty funny actually.

 

Jesse

[Ron STL]

An interesting discussion that has obviously generated a good deal of serious discussion. I've occasionally lost sleep when thinking about -- worrying about -- the bourdon put on the shoulders of my children when "Ol Dad" kicks off and there is a house full of "collectables' with some value, primarily swords and tosogu, awaiting redistribution. While it seems wise to dispose of major pieces while still alive, I find that tough; let's face it, at 78 I'm not ready to part with these beautiful and exciting pieces that still bring me (and my sword friends) great pleasure. Whatever the future holds, all most of us hope for is that our families realize a reasonably "fair value" for our treasures and that our collections find a good, appreciative home that will continue to appreciate what they are. Just sharing some personal thoughts on the subject. Thanks to Peter and Arnold and others who had more constructive contributions to this topic.

Ron STL

[Curran]

There are very few museums on earth qualified to keep Nihonto (The Metropolitan, Boston MFA, those in the UK already mentioned, and a bunch in Japan come to mind), but few of us own swords any of them would be interested in.  The rest of our collections are in much better hands with collectors.

Grey

 

Grey:  I am not sure I would include the Boston MFA for fittings. They have a fine collection, but it was one of the bigger disappointments in my life was to be there to see them and find that someone felt the need to clean the insides of the iron sukashi of many of the tsuba. Whatever the cleaning agent and process, the sukashi of a number of fine pieces is eaten through like swiss cheese. I'd never seen that before, and hope never to see it again.

 

They look fine from the top down for a photograph, but someone did a number on quite a few of them.

[Davis]

Some years ago I donated a couple of items to a museum.  They never did appear on display and were probably stored away and forgotten.  The museum eventually closed.  I would never donate to a museum again.

 

In the UK, the Museums Association recently conducted a survey of museums.  It revealed that 1 in 10 are considering selling off items from their collections.  Also 53% of museums responding to the survey reported cuts to full time staff.  Almost a third (32%) reported an increase in the number of volunteers and interns.  36% said the number of school visits had decreased.

 

The pace of selling off artifacts has also speeded up.  Northampton Museum sold off a 2400BC Sekhemka Egyptian statue for over £14 million. Croydon Council disposed of 24 Chinese ceramics for over £8 million.  A number of other museums are lining up to do likewise.  Some with very good Japanese collections.

 

Getting back to the original post - we will of course, all make our own minds up on what we intend to do.  A good inventory, photos, descriptions, contact addresses etc., will all no doubt help.

 

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this interesting subject.

 

Mick

[Nihonto Chicken]

I've come to the conclusion that the best insurance for the future well being of nihonto results from selling them to those who will pay the highest price.

[kusunokimasahige]

My collection will be found in my Tomb.

I am just not decided yet if it will be a Pyramid the size of those of the Gizeh plateau or a Kofun mound of 150 meters high,

[MarkB]

Rather than bequeath one's collection to a local museum or to an uninformed relative, maybe the best thing is to send it back to a  Japanese museum.

 

At least you'll know that the good stuff is looked after well for future generations to enjoy. Maybe I'm being optimistic here.

 

Another option might be to offer it for sale in Japan where again, the good stuff will be recognised.

 

If the aim is preservation of the items, then one has to choose to pass them on to someone who will know what they have and give the due amount of care. But it goes further than that. What happens to the items when they are passed on again and again and again?

 

How much do we care? How much will we care when we are dead? How long can things be preserved anyway when their final destination is in a fireball in the Sun?

 

Sell or give them to visiting aliens might save them, maybe.

 

 

 

 

"A spring night

 

and with dawn on the cherries

 

it has ended"

 

- Matsuo Basho

[Davis]

Rick

Some adopt that principle and it can work but it won't exclude the wealthy buyer, who on a whim can buy and then discard anything they choose, without any appreciation for what they have acquired.

 

Very interesting Mark.  Nothing is forever and everything on earth has an expiry date.  Yes, at some stage we will no longer care but while we still can, we do.  Sometimes, I have stared at paintings in a gallery and wondered, for how long, something so fragile can exist, before it too succumbs to the ravages of time.  Decay, fire, warfare or thrown away with the rubbish.  Dark thoughts?  Perhaps.

 

Many swords I have encountered have been damaged or neglected in some way. Most of which has happened, probably over the last 70-100 years. Every so often though a treasure emerges from somewhere and presents itself in perfect condition, apart maybe from some surface dirt and grime, which is itself a form of patination.  How could it have survived, intact and undamaged for so long?  Generation upon generation of careful custodians, identities unknown. 

 

Mick

[b.hennick]

Jim Kurasch introduced me to the owner of a one hole ubu late Heian or early Kamakura tachi. We communicated for a couple of years as he wanted to be sure that I would take good care of his baby. I have enjoyed it for many years. Whenever I study it I think both of Krash and of the previous owner. He placed his favourite in the right hand as I will do when the time comes. We are after all only temporary guardians of these things.

[Jean]

Which school, Barry?

[b.hennick]

Tokubetsu hozon to Ko Naminohira but it could be a Senjuin.

[Stephen]

Does it make it to show or does it stay home? Id love to see it.

[b.hennick]

I have never taken it to a show but if you come to Toronto Ontario I would be happy to show you it among others. I live in a suburb of Toronto.

[Stephen]

I smell a road trip ...now to work on the bladder....lol

[Davis]

This advertisement appeared in a mass circulation daily newspaper today - the Daily Mail.