Question On A Mumei Wakizashi

[dig1982]

What do you think about this wakizashi?

I think it's shinshinto.

I don't take any measuraments yet. Some info and opinion will be appreciated.

 

Diego T.

[paulb]

Diego

without dimensions and better images I think it is virtually impossible to say. based on what you have shown it looks lokely to be shin-shinto but could also be mid to late shinto in  good condition. The hada and hamon look promising. My first thought was possibly Hizen but the nakago doesnt look right for the mainline group.

[SAS]

I can't say anything about period, but a wakizashi I acquired recently has a similar sugata and shinogi shape, though the nakago is suriage and the grain pattern is much finer. How hefty is your sword? Mine is heavier than a shinto wakizashi I have made by Kunisada in 1660.

[dig1982]

Thank you very much Paul...sorry but for now i can't take measuraments, and for the photos i thought i've taken good photos. My first thought was Hizen too but some things doesn't look right. What do you mean for better photos? What do you need?

[dig1982]

It's a strong blade and heavy Sas. That make me think it's shinshinto.

[paulb]

Hi Diego

Yes your photos of the hada and hamon are fine. I think one of the nakago would help.  The picture of the sugata it looks over exposed so you cant get any idea of colour or detail of the nakago.

As you say if it is thick and heavy I would also think Shin-Shinto most likely but lets see more of the nakago before jumping to a conclusion. Also when you measure it please guive an idea of the thickness

Best Regards

Paul

[dig1982]

Thank you very much Paul. Look at this photo of the nakago. For the measuraments it will take a little more time.

[dig1982]

Thanks

Diego T.

[paulb]

thank you

yes I would go for Shin-shinto or even a little later. It is a good looking piece of work

regards

Paul

[dig1982]

Thank you very much Paul!

Diego

[Kronos]

My first thought was Hizen as well but like Paul says there are a few things that differ. I'd go with the first half of the Shinshinto period around 1800 but I know practically nothing about that era.

 

It looks to be quite nice in a good Japanese polish.

[dig1982]

Thank you Kronos!

Diego

[Travis Clarke]

Diego,

 

Nice sword. When one judges a Hizen blade one looks for:

 

- Fine ko-Itame hada with chikei forming Kokune hada.

- Yamashiro suguta.

- Ko-maru boshi.

- Dense ko-nie in the ji.

- Hamon is nie-deki with bright nioi-guchi.

 

If your sword displays anyof these characteristics you are on the right track.

[dig1982]

Thanks Travis...but what do you think?

[dig1982]

I think the hada doesn't seem so close to this style.

[SAS]

Due to a couple of things that reminded me of mine, I researched some on Hizen, and I don't see anything that would exclude yours. (I am not an authority so don't quote me )

[dig1982]

So your opinion is that wakizashi are Hizen?

[Travis Clarke]

Thanks Travis...but what do you think?

Diego,

 

The suguta, hamon and nakago look Hizen to me. There's a Shinsa in Tampa next year that offers a mail in service. A good opportunity to get papers issued for your sword.

[Toryu2020]

I agree Shinshinto or newer -

Not Hizen, jihada pattern looks too large to my eye.

FWIW

-t

[dig1982]

Newer i think is not possible...Toryu have you got any idea of possible school or style?

[dig1982]

Travis how the shinsa works? I must send my sword to tampa?

[Isocyanide]

Nice looking wakizashi!

 

I have a Tadahiro 2nd dai-saku mei wakizashi arriving this week, so I've spend the last month studying the hell out of the mainline Hizen Tadayoshi school.  

 

It's definitely not an early mainline Tadayoshi the hada is not quite as fine as the quality they produced.  

 

The nakago seems a little chunkier than the earlier mainline Tadayoshi produced.

 

The yasurime appears to be be steeply sloping katte-agari, which rules out all (?) of the mainline Tadayoshi smiths.

 

The temper runs off the edge of the sword below the hamachi.  From Robertshaw's book "It is normally considered a Shin-Shinto trait, and some would argue never seen on Hizen swords".

 

Just some of my observations.

 

Steve

[dig1982]

Thank you very much Iso...i know this is not a Hizen wakizashi because the hada doesn't match and your opinion made me sure about this. I'm quiet sure it is a shin shinto sword...but doesn't match to nothing that i search on books of the shinshinto period.

[Travis Clarke]

Diego,

 

I think Chris Bowen would be the man to talk to about the mail in service for next years Shinsa. He's a member here on NMB.

[dig1982]

Thanks Travis...but if the shinsa mean to send the sword to another country is really not for me...

[paulb]

Steve

One thing I have learned in this subject is never to say something definitely is or isn't something. There are always exceptions.

The very fine konuka hada you are referring to really came to the fore with the second and third generatrions. The first started out doing copies of Bizen Rai and Enju so produced varied hada.

BTW I agree with you and dont think it is Hizen but not based on the hada. The shape the yasurimei the nioiguchi do not look right.

I am also a little confused with people saying it is shin-Shinto so isnt Hizen What about the 8th generation Tadayoshi, one of the best Hizen smiths, working in the 1860's and wasnt the 6th Gen Masahiro also working then (not sure without looking it up again) Hizen work has continued from early Edo all the way through to modern times.

back to the sword in question If it isnt Hizen which most,including the OP thinks it isnt we then need to think about what it might be?

[dig1982]

Shinshinto was or not a period ofexperiment? Is not possible there is some mix of style in this blade?

[paulb]

My understanding was that the leading Shin-Shinto smiths were trying to re-create styles and technique of earlier work. Experimentaton was linked less to innovation and more to trying to reproduce.

 I dont think they attempted to mix styles taking elements from different koto schools or traditions. One smith may have made Bizen and Soshu style work (which in itself is a great testament to their ability) but I dont think they experimented blending styles.

Others who have spent a lot more time looking at work from this period may offer more useful insight.

[dig1982]

Thanks Paul...i hope that someone can say much more on this wakizashi...

[SwordGuyJoe]

The shinsa is in Florida, not in another country and this is an excellent candidate. I will likely be sending an unpapered blade over too. Not that I have doubts, but when selling swords (like the two I have listed - shameless plug), I like to have them papered so everyone feels comfortable that it is what I'm saying it is.

 

You never know - you may have something pretty decent and a couple hindered bucks is more than worth it IMO.