Masterpiece Theater?

Brian · June 26, 2015

Fooled a few of us. There are legit Nihonto with hada like that. Rule is gotta find the nie I guess.

Nakago pic isn't clear though, you have a few more for us? Looks like deliberate deception to me though. If it was an auction, return it.

Brian

Stephen · June 26, 2015

maybe a photo with all the crud off the nakago

SAS · June 26, 2015

If the price wasn't too high, you have an excellent sword for iaido and tameshigiri. If the price was too high, use it for its intended purpose on the appropriate target.

Lance · June 27, 2015

From the new tang picture, looks like I was wrong too, hopefully a refund is possible.

Regards,

Lance

tokashikibob · June 27, 2015

Gents, Relatives are off deck, and this morning got the wife's van running right again. So I had some time to work on "Masterpiece Theather"

I took the sword out and grabbed a few more pictures to for everybody to study and make a final rendering. Nakago is unsigned and has shallow filing. You can see some of the hada still in the nakago. Color looks like Navy rust resistant steel almost. Whomever made this is/was very skillful, as you can see there is a little hazuya stone hamon but no nie/nioi. The handle was held on by some sort of modern adhesive.

I have 4 leather gunto's to compare to, and comparing fittings they are very good. I would say the seppa's seem thin, the cutout on the tsuba for the leather strap is a little off, but nothing sceams Chinese. The folks at the auction company are good people and didn't have any idea. I'll talk to them soon and hopefully work something out.

Best Regards,

Bob

Shamsy · June 28, 2015

Much better pictures of the fittings. I might revise earlier judgements, now the tsuba is in better light. The contrast is not as dramatic as I thought between patina and polished. They look pretty legitimate to me. That's good news.

Lance · June 28, 2015

New pics of tang look less suspect than before, I'm going to climb back out on my limb and say mumei Gendaito. Very similar to Amahide I had, and the Kanenaga posted earlier, possibly made in one of the many wartime Seki sword factories?.

Mounts look to be ok, thin seppa aren't that uncommon, especially on gunto in leather covered saya "field mounts"

Regards,

Lance

Kam A · June 28, 2015

HHHHMMM, if you are convinced I would be happy to sell you a handful of these . . . . bargain basement prices.

While I think it is prudent to be cautious passing judgment on photos I am very much inclined to believe that this is most likely a fairly decent attempt at a re-worked chinese damasc blade that have been bouncing around the market place since the late 80's early 90's. These blades are very low carbon (.2) and not able to hold a true edge. We tried on a number of occasions to "re-work" the steel but always concluded that they must be mild steel, ie not possible for yakiba.I will add to this point below

Before going on I will just piont out that Instead of repeating what I previously stated I will just say that I stand by my previous comments and will add a few more points.

The nakago - looks to have been done on a belt sander and not yasuri with the exception of the munemachi.

Sugata- I have a couple that have a Bizen Koto Tachi appearance including amost bizen shaped Nakago. . . but still just folded mild steel made in china. Anyone that has some artistic skill and has experience in bladesmithing could clean one ie; Clean up the nakago and add yasuri to all sides (omote and ura can be reasonably done on a belt sander if one has the experience) These blades usually have a true yokote. . nothing to do there.

Hada. Typical alternating/laminated steel of varying carbon content (still too mild to for yakiba and definately no noiguchi) And I guess the big give stand out point is that these blades are often Sanmai in construction using mono steel as the edge to give the impression of a Hamon. This blade looks to have just this type of construction with what appears to be a slight (miniscule) seperation between the inserted edge and the body of the blade.

As for the Koshirae this definately appears to have been a mix of legit pieces added to a fake blade. . .rest is covered in previous posts.

Finally from a personal view I would like to add that over the years I have seen a few legitimate blades get the chinese tag due to paranoia of "the insidious chinese scammers" (seems slightly racially prejudice). This fear has allowed a few opportunistic collectors to pick up some amazing gems from china. Including one which I obtained via a very discerning client whom had no qalms honestly stating he had bought it out of china.. . . I later had this blade verified as legit. I have also sold a number of high end blades to China over the years. And to top it off I have also seen chinese and indian fake items being sold out of Japan ( we all know Daimyo54) so really there is no Black and white rule, just knowledge and prudence.

Kam

Lance · June 29, 2015

Hi Kam,

I guess there must have been more contact with the Asian market for reproductions in Australiia in the 70's and 80's than there was here, as something like this wouldn't be encountered back then. There were a a few types of copies that turned up and sold as late war but they immediately recognized, Maybe more skepticism is required today due to the increase in international trade.

I still think the blade has a chance of being legit, but something like this likely requires in hand viewing, I might be taking these images and mis-interpreting or projecting my own experiences with the Amahide and other swords I've owned and handled and coming to wrong conclusions.

Regards,

Lance

Or....(see pic below )

tokashikibob · June 30, 2015

Gentlemen,

I think I have this wrapped up, I'm going to send this for shinsa papers to N.T.L.S. (Nippon To Lance Shamsy). I came across a weblink that had the near exact same koshirae even down to the snap back, same as this Masterpiece has. It was written by Clive Sinclaire. And guess what?

His theory was that Amahide's shop also made sword parts as his write up was on a Amahide blade and it's odd koshirae. Link provided.

http://www.to-ken.com/full.php?article=sr000120&type=swordRegister

Also, here is a another compare of a wild hada Amahide with no desernable nie.

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/archive/fss188.htm

I do think that this is so close to Lance's examples on page 1, other Amahide shop makes online, and the Clive Sinclaire's Amahide koshirae article about wraps it up. Plus as first mentioned the quality of the blade is too impressive in hand.

Questions I think about are why did it not get signed? I would think if chinese made it would have had a fake mei.

And how often are glued on tsukas encountered?

Lance and Shamsy next show drinks are on me!

SAS · June 30, 2015

Hope springs eternal, but the hada of the Amahide you just referenced and the hada on your sword based on the photos you posted are two different animals IMO; I stand by my earlier comment. For your sake i hope i am wrong. How much did you pay?

dig1982 · June 30, 2015

Sorry but my opinion is fake sword...damascus steel...watch the kissaki photo...where is the boshi? Hamon looks like fake.

Kam A · June 30, 2015

Bob,

I'm sorry but I think the horse is dead . . put down the club and let the Jockey go!

I could answer all the points you have raised but. . . the poor horse

If necessary I will entertain any questions you pose. . but still. . . he's not getting up. .

Maybe a moment of silence in honor of the distance and pain he had endured that has brought him to this point in time.

R.I.P Horse

Kam

Stephen · June 30, 2015

Brian · June 30, 2015

Lol.

Kam, your analysis was very educational and even though it took uncertainty to bring out all the info, I think the end result will benefit many readers. Whatever the outcome, I hope we are informed of it. Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning, and to both for remaining civil about this.

Brian

Jean · June 30, 2015

Kam, you are in my "Best in Show" 2015 list. LOL

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