Identifying A High Quality Shin-Gunto Example Vs. Others

davepsilon · June 17, 2015

A new collector here. I like the shin-gunto koshirae and I've been looking for a high quality example. I'm fortunate that a good deal of information has been published online that I have read and I'm starting to guage just what I can afford, which is decidedly on the lower end of the Nihonto market. Perhaps I can find a very high quality set of fittings on a more ordinary piece of steel.

I came across a few listings on Ebay, but I am naturally suspicous of any Ebay listing. I'm still trying to learn potential pitfalls in buying, particuarly so I can tell a good dealer from a not-so-good one, and I would appreciate any thoughts you'd be willing to share on the following listings:

1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/281700844393?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

(cross listed on their website as well http://www.antiqueimperialarts.com/Imperial-Japanese-Army-Officer-Sword-JS26.11797?filters=1000-to-1999-p7) The listing claims it is a gendaito katana. Since it has no markings on the tang, an oddly well defined hamon, and the blade in such a good state of polish my intiial reaction is that this is a fake with a later blade (acid etched hamon?).

2) http://www.ebay.com/itm/201370384731?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT An odd listing, lister appears to have destroyed the peg taking it apart, but otherwise in a good state of repair and possibly a nice example. Even has the tassel.

3) http://www.ebay.com/itm/400938866643?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Not a shin gunto mount, but includes a certificate. Is such a certificate commonly forged (or for a different blade), green seems to be an unusual color.

And if you can recommend any books useful for navigating the market, in particular for shin-gunto, I would appreciate that as well.

SwordGuyJoe · June 17, 2015

As far as books, here you go: Swords of Imperial Japan (http://www.amazon.com/Swords-Imperial-Japan-1868-1945/dp/0971912726/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1434571217&sr=1-1&keywords=Swords+of+Imperial+Japan&pebp=1434571232411&perid=1YWNHMKYPKPSGVPWK9ZZ) and Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 (http://www.amazon.com/Military-Swords-1868-1945-Richard-Fuller/dp/1854091832/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1434571217&sr=1-2&keywords=Swords+of+Imperial+Japan). These will get you started, if you don't already have them.

1. As far as mounts are concerned, this is missing the leather wrap over the saya. So if you're in it for military mounts, this is incomplete. As far as the blade, it's a legit blade and the pictures seem to confirm that it is gendaito. I can't see the yasurime to get a second point to triangulate, but the hamon looks Seki to me. It doesn't immediately scream acid finished, but

2. The mounts are good and complete. The sword is in need of polish (read >$3,000 USD to fully restore), but if you just want a shin gunto example, perhaps you don't care. Don't worry about the mekugi, you can always make another one out of a chopstick. I didn't attempt read the signature or research the smith, so I'll not speak to the legitimacy of the mei.

3. Do a search for "Tokubetsu Kicho" on the board. Plenty have been written on them. Moral of the story is that, depending on the smith, they can be inaccurate. I don't know Tsuneie's work, so I can't comment on whether the sword looks right or not.

Grey Doffin · June 17, 2015

There's also Fuller & Gregory's Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks; better book than their other title. You can see pages from all 3 books on my website (see below)

Grey

davepsilon · June 17, 2015

Thanks for the book recommendations, both look like interesting material.

2. The mounts are good and complete. The sword is in need of polish (read >$3,000 USD to fully restore), but if you just want a shin gunto example, perhaps you don't care. Don't worry about the mekugi, you can always make another one out of a chopstick. I didn't attempt read the signature or research the smith, so I'll not speak to the legitimacy of the mei.

Indeed that blade is not in the best condition and that level of restoration is not something I have the means to take on. Now with proper mantainance could I keep that sort of blade from getting worse. I don't think I could stand having one like that if I knew I was letting it waste away into ruin.

SwordGuyJoe · June 18, 2015

Of course. You can maintain the blade and ensure it doesn't get worse by regular, light, oiling (some recommend no oil, but I live in a humid climate and don't trust a bare blade). Here is a link. http://nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

Some use uchiko, some do not. A sword in this condition, in my opinion, could potentially benefit and improve its condition. I never use uchiko on a in-polish blade, but this isn't one of those.

davepsilon · June 20, 2015

for those that happen on this thread from a search engine with a similar question I found http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/index.html (translated to english at http://www.jp-sword.com/files/gunto/ohmura.html) an excellent reference for the different quality of koshirae

I also appreciated the thoughts on blade identification at http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/showato.htm

but as you might suspect the books listed above have proved a much deeper resource.

Shamsy · June 20, 2015

As a collector of shin gunto, my thoughts:

1) Looks good, but as Joes mentioned the leather combat cover is missing. The push button clip is also broken (common that they do) and there is no sarute. Overall very nice, but the lack of combat cover detracts from the piece.

2) I can't help but cringe. Fingers all over the blade, resting the edge on his truck. Someone please rescue the sword before it's destroyed. Otherwise not a bad one at all. Blade still fairly clean, good mounts. The price is very good. It has a tassel and the silver family mon. I'd say a great first sword, not to mention you would be doing it a favor. Not good photos but blade looks rather machine made to me. Nothing wrong with that.

3) I'm a collector of shin gunto so will leave this to others.

For the money, I'd pick 2 as it is a complete sword in every detail. Blade not perfect, but it's a wartime sword that's 70 plus years old.

Surfson · June 21, 2015

Dave, I just glanced at this thread, but since you seem to be interested in the mounts mostly, you might wait for a set of koshirae to come up without a blade. There is a weak correlation of the quality of the mounts with the quality of the blade, so the better the mounts are, the more likely you are to be having to pay a significant part of the purchase price for the blade contained within. Many collectors will restore an outstanding ancestral blade and are not interested in keeping the mounts, so they stick a wooden ruler in to keep them together and sell them without a blade. If you are patient, you can find a great set of mounts with no blade. They are even being sold out of Japan frequently. It's just a thought. Here are a couple that happen to be on right now, though they are way too expensive. You should be able to getting something very nice for $600-800.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Imperial-Army-Gunto-SWORD-Katana-koshirae-type-early-98-sukashi-tsuba-C-/171699352419?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fa143363

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Imperial-Army-Gunto-SWORD-Katana-koshirae-type-early-98-sukashi-tsuba-D-/201056454197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecfe60635