Acquired This Wakazashi.

bencld63 · June 5, 2015

Hi all. Acquired this wakazashi a little while ago in full polish in a shira saya and a koshirae with a tsunagi. It is signed tachi mei HIZEN NO KUNI FUJI WARA TADA HIRO. I don't think it is the mainline TADAYOSHI's but a nice blade none the less.

What do you think ?

Chris D

Correction HIZEN NO KUNI JU FUJI WARA TADA HIRO. Apologies.

Chris D

hxv · June 5, 2015

Chris,

I would stick my neck out and guess gimei.

1. Hizen wakizashi are usually signed katana mei. Yours is signed tachi mei.

2. The hada is much too coarse for a Hizento.

Regards,

Hoanh

SAS · June 5, 2015

Don't have my books out and kantei is not my forte, but it looks Koto to me.

Jamie · June 5, 2015

Not a lot of shinogi zukuri waks in koto though.

Always there are exceptions but general rule.

steve0 · June 5, 2015

Example of 1st and 2nd gen shoshin mei's from Rogers book

I think its gimmei in my non expert, limited, novice opinion

Marius · June 5, 2015

Jamie,

There were many shinogi zukuri wakizashi in the late Muromachi period. Sorry, but your statement is a bit misleading.

Also, "koto" is not a name of a period, but a designation for swords produced from the Heian up to the Muromachi period (roughly). I think we had better use the proper terminology so as not to confuse newcomers. BTW, what is a "wak"? Something to do with "whack"? I am not particularly attached to the term "wakizashi", but truncating sounds a bit sloppy. Is a katana a "kat"?.

I know, I am a smart-ass I am aware of that and I have stated this in my signature

Stephen · June 5, 2015

Marius for world leader!!!

SwordGuyJoe · June 5, 2015

I am pretty confident that a wak what you cook stir fry in... And a kat is a domesticated feline. I'm surprised you didn't know these things Marius.

Marius · June 5, 2015

Oh, yes, sorry. I should have known...

Jamie · June 5, 2015

You're right, I won't abbreviate the words in the future.

My apology.

Brian · June 5, 2015

Jamie....don't listen too hard to the clowns

While I don't encourage it, we have all written the occasional "waki" or other abbreviation after a long day of typing. There are far worse things in life to worry about

Brian

Marius · June 5, 2015

Jamie,

As Brian said, I am a clown, and, BTW, Stephen is my boss. We are a bunch of clowns here, so take it easy

Jamie · June 5, 2015

This is a primarily academic website so I certainly should adhere to that. It does help beginners with proper terminology. I am a huge smartass myself, but keep it mostly caged here. No offense taken - it was all In good fun.

Mariusz, hopefully you Stephen and I will get to goof off at a show sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Brian · June 6, 2015

Academic websites need some light-heartedness or otherwise they stagnate and die of seriousness. Just like the circus, we need our clowns to remind us that this is a hobby, and above all else it needs to be fun.

Brian

manfrommagnum · June 6, 2015

On an up side. It looks like it is in good condition. As long as you get out of it some enjoyment while preserving the history of the blade and not lose any money worth crying about, its a good purchase.

Michael

bigjohnshea · June 6, 2015

ChrisD,

Don't put too much faith in the "online kantei" process you see occuring here often. Notice how when these little "online kantei" sessions pop up here on NMB, everybody avoids words that indicate a tone of certainty in their comments. In other words, nobody says "Definitely gimei!" in place of "I'd bet gimei..." People will write with just as much confidence as they need to make their opinion seem important, but not enough certainty to be called out by others if their opinion is misinformed. This is not meant to be elusive or cruel, it is simply learned behavior.

There are only two forms of kantei that matter, and they matter for two different reasons.

1) Your own kantei, if you plan to keep the blade foresaking all possible issues with it.

2) Shinsa, if you plan to paper the blade and possibly sell it.

All that aside, I think it's a lovely blade. I like most people enjoy itame hada and this has a nice ko-itame hada which does appear in Hizen. I'm referencing Fred Weissberg's site there, as well as for most of what is written in this paragraph regarding Hizen blades. Personally I am not a fan of suguba hamon but if you like suguba then great. Suguba also appears commonly in Hizen. (*Fred) Your blade is torii-zori (kasagi-zori) which is consistent with Hizen. (*Fred) The first mekugi-ana appears punched in, and the second appears drilled. This as well as the patina on the nakago indicates it is likely atleast two hundred years old, but there is nothing that definitively places it in Koto vs. Shinto. Even in Shin-shinto when drilling became the norm some smiths still punched their mekugi-ana. It looks like the kissaki was reshaped as the boshi is more shallow midway up the kissaki than the yakiba is in the rest of the blade. Hizen blades typically do have ko-maru boshi (*Fred) as does yours.

I'm honestly not sure why people are convinced this is gimei. I can't say with any certainty if it is or is not (neither should anyone else here) but here are my reasons for doubting it is gimei:

1) The mei looks like it has aged evenly with the rest of the patina on the Nakago.

2) "Most blades were signed tachi mei until Muromachi." (I'm referencing the NCJSC's site on that) The tachi mei nature of your blade does not prevent it from being Hizen. Hizen blades certainly predate Muromachi.

3) It doesn't make sense to me that a gimei would be added to a sword that has so many of the features of the same school indicated in the gimei. Most of the time you see a gimei it is on a blade that lacks the qualities of the smith that is falsely attributed by the gimei. The goal of gimei is to add value to something that lacks the qualities of the value that the gimei proposes. In other words, how often do you see an accurate gimei? Furthermore, just looking at Nihonto Club mei search you can see atleast two swordsmiths from Hizen signing nearly the same as your mei from between 1624 to 1736. Mind you that is not Muromachi though...

Hope you like your blade enough to keep it. That is the goal in my mind. Buy to keep. :-)

Marius · June 6, 2015

John,

I always wondered why people say they like this and that hamon and dislike another. May I ask you why? Then again, this would mean hijacking the topic. I'd say - a good hamon is something that does not have anything todo with a particular shape. A suguha can be great or bad, just as a choji midare. Ask yourself - what makes a good hamon?

bigjohnshea · June 6, 2015

Just more of my personal preference for the showy billowing patterns of other hamon. :-) I wasn't meaning to imply his blade has a poorly executed suguba hamon. Can't really see the details of it well enough to declare its qualities.

nihonto1001 · June 7, 2015

"koto" is not a name of a period, but a designation for swords produced from the Heian up to the Muromachi period (roughly). I think we had better use the proper terminology so as not to confuse newcomers.

Since we are being fastidious, there is nothing wrong with calling it "Koto Period". IE., at least from a grammatical standpoint.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/time+period

There are plenty of references to Koto Period in sword nomenclature.

Jim P · June 7, 2015

Hi John, You said ,

(Don't put too much faith in the "online kantei" process you see occurring here often. Notice how when these little "online kantei" sessions pop up here on NMB, everybody avoids words that indicate a tone of certainty in their comments) Because we are looking at photos so have to err on the side of caution but you will find most of the time you will get a lot more insight but this is not shinsa also some do not like what they hear so dismiss the thoughts and process

(The mei looks like it has aged evenly with the rest of the patina on the Nakago.) A lot of Bungo Takada swords were made into gimei hizen blades at that time so maybe start there

("Most blades were signed tachi mei until Muromachi." (I'm referencing the NCJSC's site on that) The tachi mei nature of your blade does not prevent it from being Hizen.) But a lot more unlikely Suguha-hamon and konuka-hada were a main stay of the Hizen school.have a look at some Tadahiro blades,

http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2015/15218-2.jpg
http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2014/14857-2.jpg
http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2010/10142-2.jpg

and my Hizen Tadakuni (First generation) for a close up of konuka-hada

then a gimei one for comparison

http://www.nihonto.com.au/html/tadahiro_katana.html

John, it lacks the qualities of the smith have a good look at tadahiro, But you never know only shinsa will tell

paulb · June 7, 2015

We seem to have gone round the houses a bit on this. To try and come back to the sword concerned I would suggest the following:

1. There are examples of larger wakazashi (which in the absence of any measurements I am assuming this is) being signed tachi mei as there are katana being signed katana mei by Hizen smiths. As always there are exceptions and although it is always safer if a blade conforms to the norm you cant dismiss it because it doesnt.

2. I cannot see the kanji in enough detail to comment on whether I think it looks right and unless it is glaringly obvious I am not qualified to identify the differences of faked mei. What I can see the wara character looks ok the first second and last are questionable.

3 I agree with John that the mei looks contemporary to the nakago and this is a concern as for a Hizen Tadahiro blade you would expect it to be in much better condition and the mei more clearly visible. While I think it is of period it looks to have had a very hard life.

4. I also think this is born out in the jigane. The areas of o-hada may well be the result of multiple polishing showing core steel. Hizen blades are notoriously thin skinned. So the combination of the nakago and jigane suggest that if this is shinto it has had a hard life

5. The shape and the hamon both look good and in proportion. The overall look of the sword does to me have the "just right" look of a mainline hizen work.

So overall conclusion (which based on John's earlier comments, is worth exactly what it has cost, i.e nothing) I would not dismiss this as being gimei I cant see enough to do so. there are indicators that suggest it could be right but if it is it is not in the best state of preservation.

Stephen · June 7, 2015

make a Hizen daisho....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIZEN-Japanese-KATANA/151679460067?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D31478%26meid%3D935313cc565643b792a1c9f63fae5e86%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D151697634895

bencld63 · June 8, 2015

Hello all. I have been following what has been said with interest and apreciate greatly all of the replies. Please see some more pictures of the habaki, tsuka and a top shot of the nakago. As can be seen, it has had a number of polishes and is probably "not in the best state of preservation" as stated.

I had no real expectations of this wakazashi being a mainline TADAYOSHI but I acquired it for less than the price of a polish, a shira saya and it comes with the old koshirae and it has some nice work in it and I like the blade. I will be keeping it, enjoying it and learning from it so I consider it to be an ok buy.

Thank you.

Chris D.

PS. One of my customers has a sword bought back from the war by her husband and after my inquiry she is interested in passing it on. I am hoping that will eventuate soon so I will keep you posted.

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