Width Of Shinogiji

[jct3602]

    I feel ignorant, but what standard is used to decide that a shinogiji is narrow or wide?  Is it purely sibjective, or is there a general rule dealing with the ratio between the width of the shinogji and the width between the shinogi and the cutting edge?

 

   

thanks,

 

    john T 

 

[Toryu2020]

John -

I would say that it is subjective, since we do not get to take out our calipers and take measurements during a kantei kai. However the benefit of attending many such sessions is that you build a database in your minds eye of swords you have seen, the differences are often barely noticeable but with time you learn to see the patterns.

-t

[Jamie]

John

To see this your best bet is to look at as many good swords as you can. Try to attend sword shows. I know this doesn't exactly answer your question but it provides a means for you to answer your own.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Thomas & Jamie are correct, John. When you get used to how a "typical" sugata looks, your eye will automatically start to pick up on details like the size & depth of hi, yakidashi, & shinogi location. Spend some time looking through blades on Aoi Art if you don't have blades to look at in-hand. It will help.

 

Ken

[Darcy]

It's a really good question and the answer is that it is relative to the width of the mihaba.

 

There are two extremes in koto, one is Miike and on the other you have the very end of Kamakura to Nanbokucho Soshu. 

 

I pulled two examples from swords I have had. On the left is a Yukimitsu that the NBTHK took care to write up as having a narrow shinogi-ji and saying that this was a very typical feature of Soshu swords. The Miike has very wide shinogi hi and wide hi and the NBTHK wrote that up as being very typical for Miike school.

 

On the Soshu blade the hi represents 28% of the mihaba of the sword halfway down. The Miike is 43%. That doesn't sound that far off but what the eye is picking up on is the relative relationship of the width of the ji to the width of the shinogi-ji. Since every percentage given to the shinogi-ji subtracts from the ji the balance of the two changes rapidly. So it is better expressed as a ratio of the two ji. 

 

In the case of the Soshu blade it is 2.5 : 1 for this relationship. In the Miike it is 1.1 : 1 ... so expressed like that the difference is apparent by glancing at the numbers, as it is when glancing at the swords. 

 

I measured the Go Yoshihiro on my site and it comes in at 36% and is "just about right" for normal sugata I think. 36% is a ratio of 1.78 which is very close to 1.6, which is the golden ratio. So stuff close to this probably feels about right and when you add the perception of the mune to this it probably lands right on the golden ratio. 

 

For overall width the Soshu blade in this case is wider than the Miike. Some Miike are made quite wide though I think.

 

[jct3602]

The effect a polisher could have after work to remove chips probably also matters.  For instance if Darcy's Soshu blade had a wide enough ha to withstand the removal of significant chips, that 5:2 ratio could be substantially altered. Blades falling in the middle of the range of proportions might shift to a relatively wider shinogiji after polish unless the polisher reestablishes the shinogi in accordance with the school.

 

which leads to the possibility -

 

A poor diagnosis of school by an inexpert polisher might lead to no replacement or misplacement of the shinogi and have an effect on perception of width. 

 

Just thoughts since width of the shinogi is an important kantei point.

 

I do believe that approaching the Golden Mean in art is of great importance (for Darcy)