Meteorites & Swords

[Fuuten]

Someone passed me this link, and i remembered someone's topic about meteorites & swords.

 

https://twitter.com/Zan_Woo/status/597352709285490688

 

Quite interesting.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I was the one who started that post, Axel. I'm still working on the paper on how meteorites can be used to forge blades, but it's a much slower process than I thought, or hoped. Thanks for that link.

 

Ken

[Guido]

http://www.japantoday.com/category/arts-culture/view/katana-in-tokyo-skytree-forged-from-meteorite

[Ken-Hawaii]

Hey, Guido, thanks! Don't they mean Yoshindo Yoshihara, rather than 'Yoshiwara'?

 

Ken

[Guido]

Don't they mean Yoshindo Yoshihara, rather than 'Yoshiwara'?

 

You can read 吉原 both ways, Yoshiwara and Yoshihara. Yoshiwara is actually the more common reading.

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Actually, the use of meteoric iron in the manufacture of blades is not very rare. It has been used by the Malayan EMPU, the smiths of the famous kriss, for a long time, and some bladesmiths still use it today in very special knife-blades. 

Generally, meteoric iron is low in carbon but rich in nickel content, which allows a combination with another steel with high carbon, high manganese content to receive a Damascus steel with good contrast.

So it is very likely that a KATANA blade with satisfying technical properties will contain only a small portion of meteoric iron, merely for a publicity effect.  

[Ken-Hawaii]

Jean, I sent a 5 kg iron meteorite to a smith I know in Okayama, who forged a katana from it alone. Just wish I could have afforded the finished blade!! Of course, as he is the son of a mukansa smith, I guess I shouldn't have been very surprised at the price....

 

Ken

[Brian]

5kg Meteorite is worth a small fortune. You should have at least gotten a kogatana out of it.

 

Brian

[Ken-Hawaii]

My out-of-pocket cost was about $0, Brian. A friend & client sells minerals wholesale, so I repaired one of his computers in trade for the meteorite.  But I certainly agree that I should have gotten SOMETHING out of the deal, especially as he made a kogatana AND a tsuba from my meteorite!

 

 

Ken

 

[Wah]

I’m not much on mythology but ancient Japanese stories tell how Kusanagi no Tsurugi ("Sword of the Gathering Clouds of Heaven", ) was made from the tail of the dragon called "Yamato no Orochi" ("eight-forked serpent"

The terrible dragon had eight heads and eight tails, that filled the whole valley, and is said to have eyes as red as good wine.

 As Susanoo cuts the dragon into pieces, he finds an excellent sword from a tail of the dragon that his sword had been unable to cut. The sword is later presented to Amaterasu.

Could this ancient tale be giving us a hint that the Grass Cutter was made from a meteorite? In times past people have referred to meteors as dragons.

 

I thought it interesting, Mr. Schillers link to the meteoric sword gives that sword almost the same name of the ancient grass cutter.

That sword is called  (tentetsutou) “Sword of Heaven”

 

The grass cutter is called Kusanagi no Tsurugi “Sword of the Gathering Clouds of Heaven”

 

Just something to ponder…..

Stephen T.

[Guido]

天鉄刀 = tentetsu-tō = heaven-steel sword

 

 

草薙太刀 = kusanagi no tachi = grass mower sword

 

a.k.a.

 

天叢雲劔 = ama no murakumo no tsurugi = heaven cloud gathering sword

[bigjohnshea]

5kg Meteorite is worth a small fortune. You should have at least gotten a kogatana out of it.

 

Brian

 

I also collect meteorites in addition to swords.

 

If it is a less rare meteorite like Campo or Gibeon, and it is in natural patina (no treatments or removal of rust, etc.), or not particularly attractive, you could get a 5kg iron specimen (or a combination of smaller) for anywhere from $1000-$5000.  It's a chunk of money, but compared to what most Nihonto cost it's not much.  

 

I recently sold a 1.2kg Uruacu iron (Brazilian) in natural patina for $250.  Do the math on that and you get roughly 5kg of Uruacu in natural patina for $1000.  You can get big Campo de Cielo meteorites for really good prices.  Larger irons are getting harder to find though just because many countries, like Agentina where Campo comes from, have been restricting export of them.

 

Cheers!

[drjoe]

not the first time that yoshindo has made a sword from meteorite.  it is said that he made one (first?) in 1989 and here is another:

 

http://www.bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=91175

[Alex A]

For anyone who hasnt seen an iron meteorite, heres a 50lb campo del cielo i used to own. See the Regmaglypts (thumbprinting) created by ablation passing through the atmosphere,

[bigjohnshea]

Alex,

I have so many meteorites in my collection, but I am jealous of anyone with a big Campo like that.  

I simply never commited the funds to a nice large Campo like that before.

Beautiful...

Cheers,

[Alex A]

Hi John, i bought it when there was an abundance of large campos being imported into the US, got it quite cheap. One or two dealers did very well indeed, as you probably know, but seems the good times are over.  Specimens are now getting smaller and the prices are getting taller, gets me thinking i should have hung onto it a while longer. Anyway, now has a good home at Edinburgh University.   

[Ken-Hawaii]

There are evidently some big booths dedicated to meteorites at the huge rock & mineral show in Tucson, Arizona every January, & my buddy hits them for me. I have a couple of 25-pound iron meteorites, not Campos, but rather one Muonionalusta he sold to me, & one Sikhote-Alin I picked up in my Air Force travels many years ago. Very cool stuff!

 

Ken

[Alex A]

I used to collect oriented Sikhote-Alin, had a neat little collection of those at one point.

 

I suppose its worth a mention that there are some meteorite enthusiasts that wouldnt be too happy about meteorite specimens being turned into swords or anything else for that matter. One story caused a lot of controversy and debate,  http://www.theguardian.com/global/2012/jul/22/meteorite-katie-paterson-field-sky

 

Interestingly, she acquired it from Geoff Notkin (meteorite men tv series), who was none to pleased about it, the piece was apparently one of his favourites  

[bigjohnshea]

Alex,

I guess they can bitch all they want, but they're probably forgetting that the only reason Barringer spent so much time and money looking for meteorites out at the Meteor Crater in Arizona, is that he wanted the iron to manufacture with.  

 

My point is that there is only so much Iron meteorite that needs to be preserved.  You can't study it all, and it is a natural resource just like any other out there, so why not make some art with it if there is plenty around?  :-)  It's not like they are making knives, swords and sculptures with NWA 6704, NWA 7304, and bits of Ensisheim.  Rare, and scientifically important meteorites are a whole other breed.

 

Cheers,

[bigjohnshea]

Ken,

The Tuscon Gem and Mineral show is a mainstay of the industry.  It's also the absoute best way to get good deals on specimens.  My Ensisheim piece was purchased for about half what the value would be outside of the Tuscon G&MS.

Same goes for the Ensisheim Meteorite Show in France every year.

Cheers,

[Ken-Hawaii]

Never heard of the French show before, John; thanks for that info.

 

Ken

[Adrian]

 If memory serves, the Mughal emperor Jahangir had a knife made from a meteorite.

 

 L.E. Here goes: http://www.asia.si.edu/collections/singleObject.cfm?ObjectNumber=F1955.27a-b

 Apparently it ended up in the Smithsonian.

[Ken-Hawaii]

That's pretty cool, Adrian, thanks. I've spent countless hours at the Smithsonian when I had the time & worked for the feds, but I never saw that display. Wonder how they got that steel pattern? It sure isn't Widmanstatten.

 

Ken

[bigjohnshea]

That is a cool knife.  Thanks Adrian.  The pattern looks similar to many nihonto though.  

 

I went to a Genghis Khan exhibit recently here in Philadelphia, and I was surprised to see how many of the swords looked very similar to Nihonto.  Although it seems like alot of the weapons his army used were kind of a hodge-podge of weapons taken from other civilizations.  The Mongol bows being the only exception.  Seems like they were really serious about their bows.  The exhibit mentioned that it would take each warrior something like a year to make thier own bow, and they would sleep with it at night to keep it warm; to keep the wood from getting stiff.

[Fuuten]

Sorry to revive this threat, but this is somewhat related and quite interesting.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/may/02/terrawatch-ancient-egypt-iron-meteorite

http://www.space.com/33037-king-tut-blade-made-of-meteorite.html

 

King Tut was buried with a dagger made of an iron that literally came from space, says a new study into the composition of the iron blade from the sarcophagus of the boy king.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Axel, this finding shouldn't be much of a surprise. Cultures all over the world have used nickel-iron meteorites to create everything from masks to knives. Not many other places to find iron or steel a few thousand years ago. Now if there was some way to associate meteorites with starting the Iron Age, that would be interesting!

 

Ken'

[Brian]

See: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/19738-king-tut%E2%80%99s-knife-was-made-from-a-meteorite/?do=findComment&comment=202385