Your Worst Purchase

[SwordGuyJoe]

All,

A recent topic from a newbie who got stung made me think of posting a thread focused on a little self-deprication. What was your worst purchase? Was it a Chinese fake? An auction you got a little too zealous in bidding? A gimei blade you were confident was legitimate? I'll post mine when I'm in front of my computer, but it was a Chinese fake of a kyu gunto - I only "invested" $700 in an invaluable learning opportunity, so perhaps it was my most profitable buy...

[Fuuten]

Nice topic! Time for a little self-shaming.

 

I don't own many swords, but out of the 3 that i own, the low quality tanto (like 400 euro), is the least worthy.

Also i own quite a lot of of Japanese ceramics, i have quite a few i in hindsight shouldn't have bought

[lonely panet]

well, iv never been stung with fakes...  BUT my worst purchase is one Papered Akasaka Tsuba, and by worsed I mean its great in every way apart from when I needed to sell it to raise some quick money, I couldn't sell it full stop.

 

this asidel, I have always regretted NOT buying the things I should have like a papered Tsugahiro katana for $5000

[SwordGuyJoe]

I thought I had some pics that I could post to fully purge my past indiscretion, but unfortunately, I have since deleted them.  In hind sight, it was pretty obvious, but at the time it wasn't. In my defense, at least one member here - who I'll keep nameless, thought as I did - that it was legitimate.  

 

Hamish, Your topic on the one that got away is interesting and a nice addition.  Mine was a gassaku work by Miyaguchi Ikkansai Toshihiro and Miyaguchi Ikkansai Tsunetoshi.  This was a big addition to my Kasama Den collection since it was a two-'fer (Two smiths on one blade) - http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16181-miyaguchi-ikkansai-gassaku/.  I thought I lost it, but thankfully - due to language barriers - the sword was available (just not at a discount), so I was able to get it.  The one that truly got away recently was this sword by Morioka Masataka (one of Shigetsugu's four main students - http://www.seiyudo.com/ka-050213.htm).  

 

Thanks to Mr. Bowen, he referred me to a different piece that was about 30" and papered, that I was able to pick up for a "song" (value, not cheap...).

[John A Stuart]

Easey peasey. I bought a fake sword from China knowing full well it was fake, but, wanted to find out just how bad in hand. 20$ and 80$ shipping, some such. It came and was just about the worst fake you could possibly expect. The scabbard had been dyed, stained with an organic stain that must have been water buffalo dung. It stank to high heavens, so badly, that when I gave it to my son-in-law, I don't know, to lop off reindeer antlers or something, his mother told him to get it out of their shed. My worst, right there. John

[Brian]

Don't have too many "worse purchases" stories, but definitely not enough "best purchase" stories

Maybe one of my worst was a trade, where I let bling and horimono blind me from the fact that I was letting go of a stunning naginata with perfect lines. I miss that blade every day.

I have had the usual cheap hagire purchase and "hamon running off at the kissaki" purchases, but in all cases I was lucky to either get a refund or compensation.

For many of us, our worst purchases will only become apparent when the blades are polished and/or papered and we discover the hidden hagire or find out the blade is sai-ha.

 

Brian

[obiwanknabbe]

My worst purchase ever was my first purchase ever in 1994. It  was a Kane Mitsu Gunto, in type 94  mounts, that I bought from the Ebay dealer Augustcornell (who will forever eat through a straw if ever i find out who he really is). It was described as razor sharp, in good polish, and in great shape. Back in the day digital camera pics were very low resolution so it was hard to tell otherwise. When it came, the saya was taped together with black electrical tape (could not see in pics as saya was black) handle was broken, Nakago was ground with a sander and then reblued to look like it had an aged patina, and the blade looked like it had been worked over with a rock. I contacted the seller who claimed it must have been the wrong item that was shipped to me and that I should return it for a refund....... Which i did.... for a refund that never came. He made off with my $450 USD, which was a ton of money to sophomore in high school, and i never heard from him again. This was before paypal and buyers insurance so i was up the creek with no paddle. Total loss. All these years later and it still gets my blood boiling when i think about it.

 

Kurt K

[Jamie]

Worst purchase was cheap differentialy hardened sword shaped object. Had a real Hamon though and it easily zipped through tatami. I bought it for 125 and cut up like 15 tatami mats. Nope not trained. Just very athletic. And I studied cutting. I am recommending people do not try this even though my dumbass did. Also just to note I examined the katana hamon with a scope to make sure I could see the granules in the gain smaller than the ones in the ji

It cut as you'd expect- like a razor. I cut a lot of bamboo with it also.

I then sold it for150. It was not bent or damaged in any way and it would shave hair still. Amazing.

It was a bugei though. They aren't bad.

 

I've made no mistakes with nihonto purchases thus far. Well that I know of anyway.

I listened to older more experienced collectors - both here and off the nmb.

Only the very first Tanto I purchased wasn't papered(was in polish), and now it is. All the rest have been in Polish and papered.

[Jean]

A sue Muromaxhi Kanetsune with a NTHK kanteisho which had 3 hagire once polished. The dealer took it back but I had to swallow the polish.

 

You understand why I buy now my swords in full polish, my confidence in papered unpolish swords is freezing zero.

[Mark C]

Not so much a purchase , more of a bad trade. I swapped a collection of bayonets (47 in total) for a £600 Gunto

 

Regards

 

Mark C

[Bugyotsuji]

My biggest mistake was trusting a 'financial adviser' 'friend' who pushed me into investing 80,000 USD of my savings, among other things, and then scarpered. Took me years to get over the shock of that, especially as he had told me he would guarantee the initial investment, and I had told him the money was for my daughter's education and thus I wanted a decidedly low-risk investment. Still have his signed letter agreeing to pay me back...

 

Since then I have learned to be a little more circumspect. Having a J wife has helped me learn too. As for sword-related purchases, two rusted arrowheads a couple of years ago take the cake, I guess. Chinese fakes with the latest upgrades.

 

But as the Japanese say, if you have learned a lesson from your purchase, then the money spent is school fees. 授業料 Jugyo-ryo.

[Shugyosha]

Bless me father for I have sinned...

 

From my point of view it's paying more than I should have done for low-end, albeit genuine pieces. A couple I've now moved on at a significant discount and I'll probably end up doing the same with some better quality pieces later on this year that I've now outgrown as I'd like to make a quality purchase sometime soon. Oh and I've acquired what is probably a a gimei goto tsuba...

 

Hind sight is a wonderful thing, and in retrospect I wish that rather than buy these pieces I had simply banked the money as I would have enough for a pretty good sword by now that I would enjoy far more than these pieces - but a chunk of money that size usually gets spent on something a bit more sensible than big boys toys so maybe I wouldn't. So my sage advice to beginning collectors would be to avoid the temptation of spending on lower end pieces as there is a pretty good chance that you won't get your money back.

 

I like Piers' comments about paying school fees...almost everyone has had to pay some at some time in this hobby.

 

Best regards,

[Dave R]

 My "worst" purchase was two "Bronze Age arrowheads" from China, I won the auction at a low price and shipping was free. When they arrived they were huge, the maker( forger) had done everything right except, mixing up centimetres and inches so these things were 2.5 times bigger than they should have been. No great loss and I made a profit on resale to people who found them as amusing as I did, one was bought to illustrate a lecture on the very subject of not confusing inches with cent......

 Generally I have more regrets over what I sold in time of need rather than what I bought in times of plenty!

[charlie1]

My worst purchase is a Type 90 IJA helmet I brought off of ebay years ago. The shell of the lid was real, but the liner was fake. As soon as you turn the liner inside out you see the nylon holding the pads in. Tried to send it back and get my money back but no dice... I keep on my shelve as a reminder. Wasn't a big loss, but a great learning tool.

 

Charlie

[Ken-Hawaii]

No problem with swords, but my worst purchase was a brand new 2005 Honda VTX1300C motorcycle...two weeks before I had to have a major knee operation from a slip-&-fall. Can't hold the bike up safely, but still can't bear to sell it. Anyone want to trade for a bike with less than 100 miles on it...?

 

Ken

[Teimei]

A fuchi-kashira signed "YOSHIOKA INABA NO SUKE"... gimei of course  !

 

Because of that, i was not able to buy a very very very very... nice (papered) satsuma tsuba .

 

But at least i learned something .

 

 

 

 

Regards,

[johnb]

Mine was a 1966 1500cc Simca. I bought it for 25 quid because I needed a car to get to work...it broke down almost everyday!

[jct3602]

my worst purchase was not in swords but is the computer I am using right now.  Bought it as a back up from Fry's electronics in Palo Alto, Ca about 1 1/2 years ago.  Checked that it got on the internet and did not use it till my good computer broke down.  It is a low end Hewlett -Packard with Vista on it; try to view an article from Yahoo, and it takes 2 minutes to download; visual stuff starts and stops like an 80's computer.  Type an email and it hangs up every 4th letter.  HP loaded it up with more programs than it had the RAM to easily handle; have dumped those I could, but many are put in as read only, so it is still a snail.  Tempted to go into Fry's when I visit California and just dump it in the middle of the floor.  Was fooled by the great high end HP monitor I have, the w2558hc.  Well, hopefully I have learned a lesson......

 

john T.

[reeder]

My worst purchases have been on knives on blades I thought I could make a little money on to put into swords and ended up taking a loss just so I could get some of the money back. On swords, I've at least been able to get what I paid for them back fortunately so far.

 

My biggest miss was a Type 98 Gunto with a 34" Nagasa by Masayuki w/ mint tassel for $900 I guess I happened to stumble across right when it was listed. I hit the buy now button and it refreshed as being sold. 2 weeks later it was listed by another eBay sword dealer for $7500. I think about that one all the time. Would have loved to have a katana with a 34" cutting edge hanging on my wall!

 

With all the bad buys and misses, I've also had some extraordinary purchases. I bought a Type 3 gunto for next to nothing based on 4 of the crappiest pictures ever. Came in and was one of the cleanest type 3s I've seen with a 26 1/2" Nagasa by Nagamitsu. I also bought a very nice Type 98 that was just beautiful. Seller couldn't get the handle off and didn't want to mess with it. It just spoke to me so I bought it. Got home, removed the tsuka, and it was a Yasukunito by Kajiyama Yasunori.

[Pete Klein]

Back in 2001 I picked up a book written by an ex-Navy Seal about six motivational lessons from their training. On one page he mentioned a 'Cold Steel Solid Tang Tanto'. I didn't have a clue as to what he was referring so I looked it up on Ebay (of all places) and found traditional Japanese tanto listed alongside the cold Steel versions. That led to finding Nihonto listings there and then a katana via Mo Becerra which I won and my fall into the Ninth Circle of Hell commenced.

 

[Jean]

Condolences, Pete - ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

[SwordGuyJoe]

Agreed. The only one more disappointed in my love for nihonto than me is the misses.

 

"Did you buy another sword Joe!?!?"

 

"Yes honey, but this one is special...."

[Nihonto Chicken]

Yeah, I once bought a totally fake nihonto.  But this was maybe twenty five years ago, before the Chinese got into the ersatz biz big time.  Back then, with my beginner's enthusiasm well eclipsing my sword knowledge and buyer's skepticism, I fell for some phuzzy Fleabay fotos and "won" an East Indian fake.  I knew enough to realize as soon as I opened the box what it was, a $200 lesson in the fruits of ignorance and stupidity. 

[steve0]

I was given a book on Japanese swords many years ago and thought to myself "awesome a free book on a topic i am most interested in" however that book was a trap and reading it has cost me upwards of 12,000.00, and counting since that date.

 

Beware gifts!

[Alex A]

Nothing Nihonto related although maybe if id started a lot younger that may have been a different story. Not a day goes by without me regretting buying an house in the wrong side of town many years ago, i suppose you buy what you can afford.

[Loco Al]

O.K., Joe threw this topic up here, so here goes.

 

Haven't made any really bad purchases yet. Only a few very expensive purchases which have since caused me a bit of anxiety since I worry that they may be difficult to dispose of in the future for anything close to their original price (except for one piece perhaps). I have learned a thing or two since then.

 

I sold one item, which I decided was perhaps not so special as advertised, back to the dealer I got it from for a loss of about $10,000. In my best estimation of it's actual worth (based upon advice from two very knowledgable nihonto experts), I figure that I overpaid about $10,000 for it. So I am really out $20,000. He has since resold it to another buyer for a very tidy profit, I am sure. So he is up about $30,000, give or take (not counting travelling expenses, etc).

 

steve0, $12,000 is nothing in the grand state of things. Count yourself lucky that you haven't frittered away much more than that. I think that playing this game of buying nihonto and/or fittings, with extra money that most people would normally reserve for toys or vacations, should give one the right to be contrary or suspicious. This is a peculiar passion, and no dealer or seller should assume that he has the right to your money.

 

Pete: "Ninth Circle of Hell". What the heck (hell) are you talking about? Would you care to expound upon that a bit?

 

Alan

[Kronos]

Pete: "Ninth Circle of Hell". What the heck (hell) are you talking about? Would you care to expound upon that a bit?

 

Alan

 

Dante's Inferno which is a very famous poem has 9 circles of hell, the 9th being treachery.

[steve0]

steve0, $12,000 is nothing in the grand state of things. Count yourself lucky that you haven't frittered away much more than that. I think that playing this game of buying nihonto and/or fittings, with extra money that most people would normally reserve for toys or vacations, should give one the right to be contrary or suspicious. This is a peculiar passion, and no dealer or seller should assume that he has the right to your money.

 

 

 

Alan

 

 

12K on books , a Gassan,  a Tadahiro and a Naginata ( 75 point score but forget by who) , isn't all bad

 

All papered and polished of course.

 

I guess I was lucky to do lots of reading before I allowed myself to buy a single item, plus i stumbled onto NMB to help further guide me along with you wonderful folk.

[Brian]

O.K., Joe threw this topic up here, so here goes.

 

Haven't made any really bad purchases yet. Only a few very expensive purchases which have since caused me a bit of anxiety since I worry that they may be difficult to dispose of in the future for anything close to their original price (except for one piece perhaps). I have learned a thing or two since then.

 

I sold one item, which I decided was perhaps not so special as advertised, back to the dealer I got it from for a loss of about $10,000. In my best estimation of it's actual worth (based upon advice from two very knowledgable nihonto experts), I figure that I overpaid about $10,000 for it. So I am really out $20,000. He has since resold it to another buyer for a very tidy profit, I am sure. So he is up about $30,000, give or take (not counting travelling expenses, etc).

 

steve0, $12,000 is nothing in the grand state of things. Count yourself lucky that you haven't frittered away much more than that. I think that playing this game of buying nihonto and/or fittings, with extra money that most people would normally reserve for toys or vacations, should give one the right to be contrary or suspicious. This is a peculiar passion, and no dealer or seller should assume that he has the right to your money.

 

Pete: "Ninth Circle of Hell". What the heck (hell) are you talking about? Would you care to expound upon that a bit?

 

Alan

 

You have some twisted ways of looking at things Alan.

Since Nihonto has no price list, how on earth can you be overcharged by $10K, since someone paid that (you)

That means that is what it is worth or was worth at the time. And if you sell it for a loss, that is your business....you chose to make it worth less. And then how on earth do you now consider yourself to have lost $20K?

Then the dealer sells it for a profit...of course.....that means it was again worth more. I think this profit/loss thing is in your head, and not based on reality. High end dealers set a price. If it isn't worth that, then it doesn't sell. What if one of the swords you bought from him is now worth $10K more than you paid for it? Does he get to bitch about it and claim you made unfair profit, or are you restricted to selling it only for what you paid?

It's not always about money. You like something, you buy it. If it is worth more or less later, so be it. If you want to speculate, buy gold or silver or oil. Don't buy art.

 

Btw, Pete was inferring that the first sword was the one that put him on the path to this unhealthy hellish obsession we are involved in.

Oy, so much angst! (said with a Yiddish accent)

 

Brian

[Jean]

I don't agree Brian with your sentence "if you want to speculate, don't buy art"

 

I am sure I could speculate were I able to purchase a Picasso or a Van Gogh LOL

 

But is it speculating when it is a sure win?

 

Btw, my dream would be to a have a Frederic Remington painting ..... So if a member was kind enough to entart me one, I would gladly accepted