Characteristics Of Pre-Edo And Early Edo Koshirae...

[kaigunair]

Seems like a topic that could use some discussion. Most koshirae appear to be from the 1860s onward. What are important characteristics to look for in earlier koshirae, especially those not related to court usage (i.e. not for tachi)?

 

Any methods for dating urushi or the lacquer work on saya?

[Jussi Ekholm]

I can't help with dating help but if you can get Uchigatana-goshirae book by Tokyo National Museum it's a gold mine of information for old koshirae. I can probably dig a few general tips from that book tomorrow.

[kaigunair]

Thanks jussi. I do have that book (2 copies actually) and it is really nice reference. I also have Marcus' book on the subject.

 

I was wondering if there are any articles out there about older koshirae and styles. I'm thinking any papered examples are probably juyo.

[BIG]

Hi Junichi,

 

Info on this Token Society PDF, Page 18:

 

Stand Late 1970:

 

3448 Juyo Token, 211 Juyo Kodogu and only 88 Juyo Koshirae.

 

http://www.to-ken.com/programmeArchive/Programme%2070%20September-October%201972.pdf

 

Best Regards

[Marius]

I recommend the purchase of two Oyamazumi Jinja collection catalogues. Small booklets but packed with old koshirae. And with naginata, and odachi... With an incredible (~2cm thick) yamagane (?) tsuba for an odachi koshirae...

 

 

Tosogu no Kigen by Sasano has some valuable information, too.

 

I am sure Grey Doffin can get you all these :-)

[Henry Wilson]

What are important characteristics to look for in earlier koshirae, especially those not related to court usage (i.e. not for tachi)?

 

Any methods for dating urushi or the lacquer work on saya?

Hi Junichi. First of stating the obvious, the sugata would give a hint

 

From what I have heard and read over the years:

•The walls of older saya tend to be thinner compared to Edo period saya.

•The cross-sectional shape of older saya tend to be very oblong, like the seppadai of early sukashi tsuba.

•The kurigata on older saya tend to be higher up, closer to the tsuba as the style of dress in the Edo period dictated more space between the tsuba and kurigata.

•Older koshirae in comparison seem more ulitarian.

•Old black lacquer tends to have a brown hue as a result of impurities (possibly iron). In the Edo period this is less so.

 

Also the notion of low quality koshirae, in particular the saya, as being disposable may not be so as there is evidence of a lot of them being extensively repaired and altered.

 

I am not saying these are fact, just what I have picked up over the years. Hope it helps.

[kaigunair]

Thanks all for the great info.  Much appreciated.  The UK Token minutes are a hoot to read.  They really knew how to hold meetings.

 

This is a wakizashi I missed due to a misplaced paypal email.  Really upset about that.  The koshirae is what made it for me, but I have not had much luck dating this style:

 

(I can't see to upload at this time.  will try again later tonight - useless post w/o, I know...)

 

It has leather covered saya, f/k, and tsuba.  Only the menuki and kurigata are metal.  Probably late edo or even meiji, but its the 2nd example of this type I've ever seen (the first being an all leather dai-sho pair with no menuki whatsoever and horn kurigata.

 

[kaigunair]

pic:

[Marius]

I have seen this wakizashi at Samuaraishokai.jp

 

This type of kshirae is called Kawazusumi Koshirae.

 

[Guido]

Kawa-tsutsumi 革包 indeed - and not pre-Edo IMO.

[Marius]

Thanks for the kanji, Guido 

[kaigunair]

Yes, not pre-edo, just got me thinking about the topic. I was wondering what period this would be from. Late edo, Meiji or could it be Taisho or Showa? What parameters to date this?

 

Either way, I had thought I found to perfect item to celebrate a bunch of good things. Something about it seemed very appealing, sedate but badazz at the same time. But in the end I missed out by missing an email, and the seller sold it out from under me. Trying to make the best out of a bad experience by learning more about it anyway.

 

Thanks for the name of this form guido.

[manfrommagnum]

Just a note on black saya turning brown. I don't think that has anything to do with iron contamination. Maki and Urishi methods of sealing stuff with cashew resin causes the resin to turn from black to brown over time and exposure to sunlight. Of course I may be totally wrong.