faked or not? Kiku mon and mei

[Roland]

I just have seen a two-sided mei plus a Kiku mon. And this time I tried to decipher it myself. I hope I have made my homework now... For me the mei beneath the 16 petals kiku mon reads:

 

Iga no Kami Fujiwara Kinmichi

 

But the mei on the opposite side of the nakago, oh man! Possibly kanji for nenki? I'm not able to read it. I know, You guys with your enviable knowledge will smile and say "well..."

 

 

Hm, it is really tough to be addicted to nihonto...

 

Edit Brian: - Adjusted brightness for clarity

[Yoshii]

Hi again,

the other side reads Nihon kaji Sosho, that means Japanese master swordsmith.

Alwasy trying to help.

Greetings Jos

[Roland]

Hi Jos,

 

must have been a very decent guy, this Kinmichi...

 

Just kidding... I know perhaps that he got the title from the emperor because of the arrangements he made to produce one thousand tachi for Tokugawa Ieyasu's war

 

 

Thanx a lot for your kind help!

[Ludolf Richter]

From the books (Nihonto Meikan and others) the statement "Nihon Kaji Sosho" is known only to have been added by later Generations in the 19th century (probably because nobody wanted their swords?!).By the way,Hawley gives "1660" to Shodai Kinmichi (KIN 43) instead of ca.1580-1615.The dating for the Nidai (KIN 46) is also not correct.Ludolf

[Roland]

Hello Ludolf, nice to meet you. My informations about the Kyo Go Kaji and Mishina School say that the 3rd generation Kinmichi received the Iga no Kami title in 1684 and was the first of the Kinmichi who used the "Mune" kanji instead of the "So" kanji in the Nihon Kaji Sosho... like seen in the mei above. But well, we all know

 

The only detail I find a little bit doubtful is the chrysanthenum, especially the right to left stroke of the petals instead the left to right stroke of the 1st and 2nd generation Kinmichis. Though I haven't yet seen the original mei of the 3rd gen. Kinmichi on a nihonto. May be he turned from left to reight to the opposite direction?

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

It think that this blade is from Iga no Kami fujiwara Kinmichi (sandai) Enpo era (1673) to kyoho era (1716), the shodai and nidai have the top (roof) of the kanji kin more open there is also a difference on the kanji kami.

According Mino to book, in 1722 Kinmichi sandai was selected by the shogun Yoshimune to participate in a competition at Hama Goden (imperial residence at Edo); but he was ill, so yondai Rai Kinmichi went in his place. The latter won and as a consequence Izumi no kami Rai Kinmichi became the swordsmith at Edo.

 

kiku mon turn on the opposite direction than yours ont he oshigata wich i have.

[kitsune]

Hi,

I'm new on this forum and I'm French.

Concerning this nakago, sandai Kinmichi used the kanji "mune" for "so", but the distance between mon and the first kanji appear too important. I don't think that this mei is true for the sandai Kinmichi. Many elements are not good (kiku mon, nakago jiri...).

Regards

[Nobody]

I also think that there are several differences with the mei of Kinmichi 3rd.

- The laps of the petals,

- writing of 鍛,

- Nakago-jiri, ...... etc.

 

Ref. http://sinogi.ddo.jp/syasin/katarogu/17 ... 23073.html

[kitsune]

But, it's not yondai Kinmichi.