New Kantei Form

[Jean]

Kantei is just the same as wine tasting, nothing to be proud of but rather a matter of education. It is a learning process. It is becoming difficult when it comes to schools mixing gokaden (for Koto schools). It is even becoming harder for Shinto and Shinshinto schools, except for the typical featured ones (sudareba, imozuru....)

[Loco Al]

  On 4/14/2015 at 10:27 AM, Brian said:

Alan,

Once again, jumping to confusions. You might want to take a time-out before posting nowdays.

Have you considered that James was poking fun at himself, and calling himself crazy for obsessing over the answer??

At least that is how I read it...without even the slightest of offense.

Seems the is starting to drift your way...

 

Brian

I think that it has already been well established that the  has more than just drifted my way. Perhaps I am already so deeply buried in that snowdrift, that there is no hope for rescue.

I did not see any ambiguity in that sentence by Kronos where he said, "and i doubt anyone else spent anywhere near that time". Perhaps then, the only ambiguity was the "crazy" emoticon at the end of the sentence. I apologize if I misinterpreted that as something other than self-deprecation. It prompted Jussi Ekholm to "confess" that he spent over two hours on his kantei guess.

 

  On 4/14/2015 at 9:41 PM, Kronos said:

Unfortunately that was my attempt at humility and it must not come as naturally as it does to you Alan. Maybe I misjudged how long others may of taken on this. In retrospect the 2 hours plus however long I took when I first saw the thread wasn't a great deal of time, especially with how obsessive this hobby can be. As Brian alluded to ones " :crazy:"  was aimed markedly at oneself and I apologize if anyone took offense at my conduct. I'll be the first to admit that I got lucky and would be knowhere if i had the sword in hand with no books.

 

P.S. there should never be any embarrassment when education is the main focus so it would be a shame if anyone felt that way or even worse - didn't have a go out of fear.

I am sorry, James. Things are said sometimes that are not necessarily intended to inflame, but may be misinterpreted as such.

You did not get lucky, James. This was a most astute kantei, given just the kantei sheet and the few poor photos provided. You obviously did your homework.

 

Alan

[Jamie]

 

Thanks Jean. I participated but hadn't posted as I didn't have it down to smith. I just haven't seen much of his work.

Kept coming back to Yamato, but knew that wasn't right.

I thought it was rai somewhere.

Anyway thank you for the exercise.

[Brian]

  On 4/14/2015 at 9:29 AM, Ken-Hawaii said:

Jean, I have a more detailed kantei sheet downloadable at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87217426/Nihonto%20Documentation%20Master.pdf It's a fillable PDF file, so you can fill in kantei points, & then print it out. I've created & have been using it to document my collection for many years. Ken

 

Ken,

That is an excellent Inventory/Kantei sheet, and with your permission hopefully, I have added it as a downloadable form from the research link above. It can now be saved with the info that has been input. Would be a good tool for all collectors.

 

Brian

[jensen6865]

Hi guys,

 

Thank you all for the information on facts, ideas, and even the humanity of art forms! I don't know about you all that are way more experienced, but I learned an enormous amount! I had a great time. 

 

Thanks to all, Dan

[Ken-Hawaii]

Of course you can post my inventory/kantei sheet for others to use, Brian.

 

Ken

[Jean]

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumei-den-ryokai

 

Another one by Ryokai. Interesting not the same hada or hamon as mine, but still some running itame near the hamon.

 

Note the comment concerning the Yamato influence on Ryokai's work and the fact that he also produced swords along Yamashiro tradition.

 

This one has some striking Tegai features, so why Yamashiro attribution?

 

This rambling tends to show that unless you have seen and studied thousand of swords, kantei may be very difficult :-)

 

NBTHK kantei solution often grants Atari to different answers concerning the smith name (as well as several different kanteisho can be issued on a same O suriage sword)

[paulb]

The Atari (correct) answer in Nbthk kantei is, as Jean says, given to different answers. However this follows fairly strict guidelines. If it is recognised that smiths of a given school all produced very similar work as is the case with ko-Enju, Awataguchi, Hosho, Kozori etc Atari will be given for smiths recognised as working at the same time alongside the signed smith. Also Teacher/student or father/son relationships are often accepted. These are judged on a case by case basis. Going back to the original reasons for doing kantei which was to date a blade agree oin its quality, school and then smith in that order.

The key factor I have found in accepting alternatives is related to period. If it is the same school and named smith but you are out by a couple of generations it will not be accepted