Nihonto Oil - A Study Part 2

[Dave R]

 I play safe and use this one, ever since I saw a Japanese Nihonto dealers video of sword care, where this featured. Personal choice, and I have no complaints, but people have commented on the excellent, even and consistent coverage. 

 

https://www.fine-tools.com/pflege.html

[Blazeaglory]

  On 9/21/2018 at 12:08 PM, NihontoCollector said:

Well, I wanted to hear if somebody has been using this Remington Oil with some longterm expirience.

Yes. Its great for guns but after a while some notice white staining in areas (maybe from the Teflon you mentioned?)

[raynor]

Hi all, 

Does anyone know what Fujishiro oil contains versus traditional choiji oil? I've used bonsai tool oil from Japan with no issues, only thing I would like to improve is extend time between reapplying. Fujishiro oil seems to have greater longevity.

[ChrisW]

I've read in many sources that Choji oil is typically anywhere from 90% to 99% mineral oil and 1% to 10% clove oil by composition.. with both serving complementary purposes of denying oxidation/moisture accumulation.

[w.y.chan]

  On 10/20/2018 at 8:27 PM, raynor said:

Hi all, 

Does anyone know what Fujishiro oil contains versus traditional choiji oil? I've used bonsai tool oil from Japan with no issues, only thing I would like to improve is extend time between reapplying. Fujishiro oil seems to have greater longevity.

 

 

I believe Fujishiro oil are mineral oil. Traditional Japanese sword oil are tsubaki or oil of camellia. Regarding choji oil depend on who you ask. Tsuruta san told me years ago choji oil came into popularity around WW2 because there was a shortage of mineral oil for the war effort so plant oil such as clove became a substitute. Others claim choji or clove is a useful insecticide.

[vajo]

Once tsuruta san says natural oil is for dinner not for swords. Then i ask him and he says he uses now only camelia öl from the brand i postet somewhere in the thread and now it seems he uses some sort of mineral oil. I think he use what he has in hand. ????

All these swords are older than we. So the question what oil is the best when you handle the swords with care is not so important as it seems.

[SAS]

At home i use chogi oil from Robt. Benson; at the shop i use mineral oil from the drug store....the only difference i see is that the chogi oil smells better.

[Blazeaglory]

I love the smell of choji oil. First thing I do when I open a package from Japan is take a huge whiff... most of the time it's a lovely vintage smell with hints of choji and aged fabric/wood.

 

I use the half round with flat bottom and white cap choji oil.

[w.y.chan]

  On 10/22/2018 at 7:49 PM, Blazeaglory said:

I love the smell of choji oil. First thing I do when I open a package from Japan is take a huge whiff... most of the time it's a lovely vintage smell with hints of choji and aged fabric/wood.

 

I use the half round with flat bottom and white cap choji oil.

 

 

If you like the smell you probably enjoy this tea

 

https://yunnansourcing.com/products/2007-xiaguan-ft-4-premium-raw-pu-erh-tea-cake

[Vagabond]

fantastic Study and very interesting discussion.  Compliments and thanks Derek!!!!

 

No one uses Vaseline oil??  here in Italy an important and recognized togishi told me that vaseline is also a very good oil.  It should be mineral one and very cheap and easy to get.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Oh, it would work, but one important detail is that you should never use so much of anything that it collects, dust, dirt, and other debris that can damage your blade.

 

With choji oil, you should apply the bare minimum needed to protect the steel from the elements.

[ROKUJURO]

We had this subject already a while ago. 

It is important to remember what properties we are looking for. It is not lubrication but protection against moisture and air/oxygen. This can be achieved by any liquid that forms an airtight layer. This has to be so thin that it remains almost invisible.

Most natural (plant) oils have a tendency to oxidize earlier or later, that is they increase their viscosity as a result of polymerization. If you want to make a lacquer, that is a desired property, but for blades you want a material that keeps its very low viscosity, so it can creep into the finest crevisses of the HADA for protection. 

Mineral 'oil' is not really oil, but hydrocarbon made from rock oil/crude oil. Vaseline and liquid paraffin are similar products but have different viscosity (and molecular chain length). These materials have limited lubrication properties, but a tendency to gather in droplets (= surface tension), which is the opposite of what we need.

Any additional (friction reducing) material like Teflon is of course useless on swords.  

A point to look at are the 'inspection intervals'. If you oil and clean your blade regularly related to your local climate, a vegetal oil like TSUBAKI (Camellia) will be absolutely fine as it will be removed long before it becomes rancid (= that is the polymerization process). 

Modern technical lubricant oils may have some desirable properties, but usually they have a lot of additives which could harm the metal or obstruct a clear vision of the HATARAKI and the HADA of a blade. I would not say all are bad, but this would have to be long-term tested.

So as long as I have no better oil, I stay with Camellia. 

[vajo]

As for me i use camellia oil mixed with choji 5/1 for a little smelling of clove. 

[Vagabond]

Thanks Jean for your kind and deep explanation. I did not consider the viscosity matter before, thanks