Nihonto Oil - A Study Part 2

[Derek]

This is the follow-up to my original study of nihonto oil. 

(Which can be found here..... http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16303-nihonto-oil-a-study/

After many questions came up regarding other available oil, I obtained samples of them and am now retrying my experiment.

In addition to the original 10 oils:

1. Ohota Katsuhisa syouten Co Choji Oil
2. 3-in-1 multi-purpose oil.
3. Breakfree CLP.
4. Hoppe’s elite gun oil.
5. Rem Oil.
6. Eezox.
7. Breakfree Collector.
8. Marine Tuf-glide.
9. Singer All-purpose Machine Oil.
10. M-pro 7 gun oil.

I have added 7 more:

1. Fujishiro Oil
2. Mineral Oil
3. Camillia Oil
4. 御刀油・最高精製錆止丁子油 Choji oil
5. Okamura Heibei Shoten Choji Oil
6. Wd-40
7. Motor Oil

[Derek]

These are the pictures of the new oils:

Fujishiro Oil, Mineral oil, and choji oil are clear and no smell.

Camillia oil is slight yellow, and has very light organic smell.

OHS choji oil is light yellow, no smell.

WD40 clear, definite odor.

Motor oil is thick, yellow, strong odor.

 

 

 

[Derek]

To recap,

I have been using Choji oil from a Japanese sword dealer on all my swords.  I clean them with a microfiber cloth, and a bit of denatured alcohol.  All of my swords are in polish.  I started using Breakfree collector on one of my swords, and although it seems to work well at preventing rust, it is very thick and seems to attract dust.  I wasn’t sure if it was the oil or my perception.  Since I am thinking of trying other oil, I started researching alternatives.

I have been looking at oil tests available online, but found that they are geared towards guns.  The usual tests show someone treating a piece of metal with oil, spraying it with salt water, then leaving it out in the element for weeks.  This seems like a good test for a gun which may be out in the elements for a week of hunting.  My issue with these tests are that the conditions tested aren’t really what I’m concerned about.  My main worry is someone touching my treated blade (either customs, a guest, sword show, or my own negligence) then being left unnoticed and then developing rust.  I am also concerned about the oil attracting dust with sticky residue.  My other minor concerns are oil staining the shirasaya and unpleasant smell.

I developed a test based on these ideas, but focused more on nihonto.  I used two identical pieces of mild steel.  36” long by 2” wide.  I separated the steel pieces into 9 equal sections, using 1” tape.  I thoroughly ground down, sanded, and cleaned the steel, then treated each section with a different type of oil.  I left one section unoiled as a control.

 

 After liberally applying the oil, I wiped off any excess with a new cloth.  I then set aside the steel for 10 minutes.

I created a saline solution of 1%, which is similar to sweat, blood, and spit, any of which may end up on our swords.  I applied saline solution to each section, then wiped it with my bare thumb.  All of this was to simulate a situation where someone touches the bare blade.

I then left the steel inside on a table to measure rust.

I also put a sample of each oil into a zip-lock bag to judge color and smell.

Finally, I treated separate knives with oil, let them dry, then touched each one to judge stickiness.

[Derek]

Start of test:

[Derek]

Cont

[Derek]

8 hour update next.

[SwordGuyJoe]

I find these post very interesting. Can't wait to see more. Thanks for doing these Derek.

[Derek]

Sorry for the delay.... Life got in the way, so experiment went 48 hrs without photos! 

I intended to repeat it anyway, so oh well....

Some surprises, but I will wait until the end to make some observations.

I ground the metal back down, sanded it, and reapplied oil.

Photos to come.

[Derek]

First check at 12 hours:

 

 

[Derek]

Cont

[Derek]

So, at 12 hours, these are my observations:

 

No change:  Breakfree CLP, Tuf-glide, MPro7, Breakfree Collector, Fujishiro Oil, WD40, Eezox

 

Very light discoloration:  Camillia Oil, 3 in 1, Rem Oil, and OHS Choji Oil

 

Light discoloration : Mineral Oil, OKS Choji Oil, Motor Oil, Hoppes, Singer, 御刀油 Choji Oil

 

Dark discoloration: Control

 

 

Next check at 24 hrs.....

[w.y.chan]

OHS Choji and Camilia oil look very similar perhaps not surprising they perform the same but we will see. Fujishiro also sells a yellow oil variety but it is rated not as good as their Jo quality and they might have dropped it.

I'm a bit surprise with OKS Choji, I believe it is actually odourless mineral, same oil is rebranded and stocked by one of the most prestigious sword dealer in Tokyo but I haven't used it long enough.

 

I think Fujishiro san would be very pleased if the 12 hours do confirm overall result. Personally I think Breakfree, Eezox, WD40, although excellent rust preventer has side effect that may make it unsuitable for Japanese sword.

 

 

Wah

[Derek]

24 Hour update:

 

[Derek]

Cont

[Derek]

At 24 hours, these are my observations:

 

Breakfree Collector, CLP, Eezox,and Fujishiro oil show no change.

 

WD40, Tuf Glide, and OHS Choji oil show a very slight discoloration.

 

MPro 7, Camillia, OKS Choji, Rem Oil, 3-1, and Choji oil all have light, but clear discoloration.

 

Hoppes, Motor oil, Singer machine oil, and Mineral oil all display medium to dark discoloration.

 

The control area has rust.

[smicha6551]

Honestly I'm surprised WD40 worked as well as it has - it doesn't have a great reputation in the firearms world.  I mostly use Breakfree CLP, Boesheild, and Ren Wax which have all worked great - but on firearms only.

[kissakai]

Hi

I've followed this thread with interest

Once complete (if it is ever complete) would you give a synopsis especially oils that could be detrimental

When used on car electrics it's purpose is to be a water barrier by forming a skin on the surface so I don't think I'd use it

After Breakfree was recommended on the NMB it is my choice

 

 

Grev

[Derek]

Last update:

[Derek]

Cont 2

[Derek]

Cont 3

[Darcy]

Really good work. Also surprising results, I give away a Fujishiro cleaning kit with every new Juyo purchase in order to try to do my part to take care of the sword. If one must use uchiko (and one must not) then at least his is head and shoulders above everything else. They are complete with microfiber cloth and that's the hope that people will use that instead. But this is news to me that the oil seems to be doing a better job than other options.

 

Thanks very much for doing this kind of work.

[Derek]

This is the best test I can think of to practically test nihonto oil.  I wanted to use a broken blade, but the ones I have seen at auction have sold for over $100.  I would test the samples without saline, but it would take months in my climate to see even the start of rust on even the part untreated with oil.

This will be my final testing, as I have spent over $200 just in oil…..

 

Again, my point was to test available oil for use on nihonto.  The tests that I have seen online seem to geared towards firearms.  I have had many private messages that have been very supportive, but a few from people that obviously missed the point; I am not trying to find a product that will let me soak my nihonto in salt water.....

I think that this test is a fair way to compare the corrosion protection of various oil. 

[Derek]

Before I discuss any observations, I would start by reminding everyone that oil need should vary by climate.  As Jean always says, no oil needed for him.  Our summers are very humid, so oil is necessary for me here.

 

I have no dog in this fight, as they say.  I only wanted to find out what is available, and what I should use on my nihonto.  I repeated the experiment twice, with very similar outcomes; some of the results were very interesting:

[Derek]

Motor Oil......

 

Smell = Very bad. 

Consistency = Thick amber color.

Protection = D

 

Overall = Very poor performer.  I used this mostly as a base line, as everyone is familiar with this stuff.  (I used Valvoline, if it makes any difference....)

[Derek]

WD 40......

 

Smell = Very bad. 

Consistency = Clear, evaporates leaving light film.

Protection = D+

 

Overall = Very poor performer. Messy from overspray.  I worry about the cleaning portion, and what it would do over time.  Protection at first looks good, but less so over time.  Smells very bad.  

 

$4 for 8 ounce can, at most stores.

[Derek]

Hoppes......

 

Smell = None. 

Consistency = Very light yellow, thin, average stickiness.

Protection = C

 

Overall = seemed ok, not a lot of protection.

 

$6 for 4 ounce bottle, at most stores.

 

 

[Derek]

3 in 1 oil......

 

Smell = Not as bad as motor oil, but almost.

Consistency = Thick, sticky.

Protection = C+

 

Overall =  Also an ok performer, but odor and stickiness

would keep me away.  

 

$4 for 3 ounce bottle, at home improvement store.

[Derek]

M Pro 7......

 

Smell = None. 

Consistency = Cloudy, looks like melted butter.

Protection = B-

 

Overall = .  Goes on thick and cloudy, but seems ok after.  Medium stickiness.

 

$9 for 4 ounce bottle, at sporting goods stores.

[Derek]

Singer Sewing Machine Oil......

 

Smell = None.

Consistency = Clear, very light oil.

Protection = C+

 

Overall =  Goes on easy, not sticky, basic protection. 

 

$4 for 4 ounce bottle, at Walmart.

[Derek]

Tuf Glide......

 

Smell = Like plastic and oil.  Not bad, but noticeable   

Consistency = Brown, like soy sauce.  Goes on thin. 

Protection = B

 

Overall = Protection is good, but seems to leave residue.  Messy application.

$15 for 1 ounce can, on ebay.