Netsuke

[Guido]

  On 11/10/2015 at 9:48 AM, Brian said:

 I guess you don't get a real (old) one for under a good couple of hundred $'s either....so sounds to me like a minefield.

 

You would be incredibly lucky to get a quality netsuke for a couple of hundreds - yes, it's like with almost all other Japanese art, it doesn't come cheap.

[Guido]

  On 11/10/2015 at 3:26 AM, Ed said:

 

The second, no information on this one.

 

At first glance it looks like cast resin to me. Can you see Schreger lines anywhere that would indicate ivory? If not, you might try the hot needle test: a red hot glowing needle will not harm ivory, but melt plastic.

[John A Stuart]

I can take it, these are just odds and sods I picked up traveling. Have a closer gander at them with better pics. I think one ivory piece may be fairly new, the rat is new. The ojime old, but, I also thought the standing man older. John

[Ed]

Guido,

Here is a photo, where it looks like the Shreger lines on the back,  Still, going to give it the needle test later.

 

[Guido]

Thanks for being a good sport, John!

 

Unfortunately the close-ups confirm that all the netsuke are made somewhere else than Japan, probably China, Hongkong or Korea, and not too long ago.

The ojime is real and old, though.

[Guido]

A good indication to spot a fake is the placement of the himotoshi, holes. If a cord is put through them, would the netsuke properly "sit" on the obi? Does the placement of the holes look natural and doesn't interfere with the design? The rat, for instance, just begs to have "natural" himotoshi where the tail meets the body, and no holes at all. The standing man should have holes in his back, instead he was given two buttholes that would make him dangling upside down on the obi.

[John A Stuart]

Two buttholes, haaaaa! Made a butthole out of me. Bought in Japan too. SOB!! John

[Alex A]

I like them, but that's where it ends.

 

I was looking at a collection in the latest Bonhams London catalogue, the "Solomon Fuld" collection, interesting.

[Bugyotsuji]

Ed. The Shishi looks too heavily stained and too yellow, possibly hiding something underneath? Not Schreger lines there in its back, but just possibly in the front right leg. (?) Anyway, proving it might be made of ivory would not really add anything to the equation, if it turns out to be modern; on the contrary, ivory would be a definite drawback.

[TETSUGENDO]

LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE RUN OUT OF GAS, AGAIN.  HERE IS A KICK START.

 

-StevenK

[TETSUGENDO]

-Would somebody scatter some beans, PLEASE.

 

StevenK

[Brian]

Steven, please edit the files before uploading. Deleted the 2.5 Meg image, and converted it to a 480k jpeg and re-uploaded.

[TETSUGENDO]

THANKS BRIAN, WILL TRY TO REMEMBER TO CONVERT TO JPEG.

 

-StevenK

[Dr Fox]

  On 11/11/2015 at 6:54 AM, TETSUGENDO said:

LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE RUN OUT OF GAS, AGAIN.  HERE IS A KICK START.

 

-StevenK

From one who knows nothing!

Is that netsuke, upside down?.

[TETSUGENDO]

  On 11/11/2015 at 11:31 AM, Dr Fox said:

From one who knows nothing!

Is that netsuke, upside down?.

No.

-StevenK

[Guido]

  On 11/11/2015 at 6:54 AM, TETSUGENDO said:

LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE RUN OUT OF GAS, AGAIN.

 

DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT TO ME.

[Ed]

Piers, The lighting produced an unnatural color on many of the shots, and I was too lazy to adjust it.  

Here is an accurate color depiction of that one and a photo of the mei.

I reshot at least one of each this morning in natural light, so from here on, at least the first photo should depict the actual color.

 

*Note: I tested them with the red hot needle, none of the ones tested melted, smoked, discolored.  

There was no change, no indication that they were resin. 

 

 

More accurate color of the first one:

 

Wooden Kappa:

 

 

More to come.

[Bugyotsuji]

Quote, Ed: "Looked through some files and found photos of two of my Netsuke. Both Shishi, the first standing on fore legs with hornbill & red coral eyes was described to me as a contemporary piece by Kinsui. The second, no information on this one."

 

The contemporary name should be read "Kansui".

 

The 'yellow' shishi with ball looks really much better in that new shot, thanks, although I still cannot decide what material it is. Ivory is likely, however. For what it is worth the name in reserve says "Kangyoku". Take it along to a local Netsuke meeting and get a hands-on evaluation. Always assume it is a modern attempt to look old, and there will be no disappointment.

[Bugyotsuji]

Steven, I think you have two Netsuke tied together, or one Netsuke and one small Okimono.

[TETSUGENDO]

  On 11/12/2015 at 2:58 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

Steven, I think you have two Netsuke tied together, or one Netsuke and one small Okimono.

NEITHER-  The bucket with lotus is a rather smallish ( late 18th/early 19th C) netsuke.  There, as you know,  seemed to have been a fad for rather fussily detailed small lightweight netsuke for use with inro at this time.   The Daruma is an ojime.

 

-StevenK

[Guido]

  On 11/10/2015 at 12:43 PM, paulb said:

thank you Guido

I will look out for it in future

 

Here's another one from my netsuke box  , same material:

[Guido]

Picking up on Ed's contemporary netsuke: like with swords and fittings, I'm more into antique netsuke. My "youngest" ones are the wooden sheep by Masanao Shinzan (although that one also approached 100 years fast) I posted above, and this hare by Yasufusa (about 40 years old):

[TETSUGENDO]

THE HARE IS LOVELY. THOSE EARS !  - A VERY KAIGYOKU MOMENT.

 

-StevenK

[Ed]

Piers, thanks for the information provided.  No Netsuke meetings around here.

 

Guido, I like the Hare also.  Guess I am not as picky with netsuke, I knew up front the one above was contemporary, but I like it none the less.

 

Here are a couple more:

Skull

 

Monkey/Tengu

 

Here is a group I figure are fakes for sure.  The temple dogs on the ends and the woman and child don't have himotoshi, so technically I susppose they are not even fake netsuke, just small carvings.  Big Hotei in the middle is too obvious.  Not real sure about the reclined man in front.

 

[Guido]

  On 11/12/2015 at 12:49 PM, TETSUGENDO said:

 A VERY KAIGYOKU MOMENT.

 

You're absolutely on spot, this netsuke is very reminiscent of Kaigyokusai Masatsugu. Quite frankly, Yasufusa's usual netsuke are not always that stellar, although his work was displayed at (and is part of the collection of) the National Museum in Tōkyō. He was a member of the Baishōdō group that was founded by (his cousin) Bishū's grandfather. This one is therefore signed 梅昇堂保房 Baishōdō Yasufusa.

[Guido]

  On 11/12/2015 at 4:15 PM, Ed said:

Guess I am not as picky with netsuke, I knew up front the one above was contemporary, but I like it none the less.

 

Ed, there's absolutely nothing wrong with contemporary netsuke, it's basically the same principle as shinsakutō. Contemporary doesn't mean fake, although many on the market unfortunately are.

[Guido]

  On 11/12/2015 at 4:15 PM, Ed said:

Here is a group I figure are fakes for sure.  

 

One of those occasions you're probably not happy that I agree  . The kappa and monkey/tengu netsuke are also definately made in China, not only the execution, but especially the material is a dead giveaway.

[Guido]

Not a few tōsōgu artists turned to making the lids for kagamibuta-netsuke after the ban of swords, so for those who'd like to reason themselves into collecting netsuke, too, here's the golden bridge  . I bought the dragon, btw, from a fellow forumite; it's a little unusual because it's entirely made from silver - no ivory bowl - and I'm very happy with it. Keep your eyes peeled, and they will come along!

[Guido]

I photoshopped the monkey and snake netsuke a little to make the Schreger lines I talked about above more visible. In this case the piece of ivory was obviously selected to show the pattern as kind of a "frame" for the netsuke.

[John A Stuart]

Here is a better pic of the mermaid netsuke. John