Activity Questions In The Steel

[jason_mazzy]

Activity in a Kaneyoshi:

Is this activity (the long bands going in and out the ha up to the ji and back in):

 

Kinsuji

 

Inazuma

 

or

 

Nijuba?

 

What is the feature that allows you to distinguish between each type?

[Marius]

Jason,

 

no activities of the hamon can be seen in this picture. What you see is the hadori finish on the yakiba and the hada. 

[jason_mazzy]

What i am saying is the lines what are they called and what is the difference between the kinsuji and inazuma. If you zoom in you can see some of these start at what is the hamon and come out and go back in. others start in the ji and cross the shinogi and come back into the ji. 

 

Maybe i am not clear on what i am asking.

[cabowen]

If you have a look at some texts I think they should answer your questions quicker and easier than the time it would take to type an answer.

[Marius]

Jason,

 

you see only hada. That is all. For activities of the hamon:

http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_hamon_hataraki.html

[jason_mazzy]

Yes i was reading texts. and using http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_hamon_hataraki.html

 

So I was thinking kinsuji but I thought I had read somewhere if it goes into the hamon somewhere and comes back out it has a different name. This does at the top 1/3 of the picture. 

 

I am confused Marius, because you keep stating the hamon, when i am talking about the activity that is in the ji but touches or goes into the hamon (which we clearly cannot see the activity in). I have been reading and using internet sources to view the activities and now I am asking the correct name for what i am seeing as i have slight confusion based on pictures in book and on the internet. 

[Marius]

Sorry to have confused you 

 

Anyway, what you see is just the pattern of the hada.

[jason_mazzy]

Middle is these bands of nioi surrounded by nie,

 

 on the left this nie streak looks in the hamon

 

On the right that line from the middle goes into the what I suspect is the hamon

 

Do these have names?

 

 

Edit* I also have the high res from the website so perhaps you cannot see the lines without blowing it up and I am just coming off crazy

 

second edit: Are you saying the activity in the ji doesn't have a specific name, just in the hamon?

[Ken-Hawaii]

Jason, kinsuji when it comes out of the hamon is called chikei. And I don't see either in this blade.

 

Ken

[Marius]

Jason,

 

This is a somewhat futile exercise... But if you insist, from left to right:

 

1. scuff from saya (?)

2. Hada

3. Hada

4. I have no idea because of the hadori

[cabowen]

http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_hamon_hataraki.html

[Marius]

Ehem... Chris, this link was posted twice in this thread 

[cabowen]

Ehem... Chris, this link was posted twice in this thread 

 

 

Whoops! Maybe 3 times is a charm?

 

Sorry about that....

[jason_mazzy]

3 times actually for that link, as thats the link that sent me here when I was curious about the hada activity.

 

I must have misunderstood a previous post on this board, as I recalled it said when hada activity crosses into the hamon (which it does on the far right) it had some name. And someone said something about kinsuji and nijuba. So when I was looking at activity in a blade I noticed this here and went to nihontocraft to verify. When I did I wasn't any clearer. I thought i would get a valuable opinion or fact here, which I did but with a little less kindness, candor, and respect than I had expected. 

 

Nevertheless I do thank you for your time as it is the one currency we cannot get any more of. 

[cabowen]

Jason-

 

Please have a look at these:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=BWy3gx-0PR8C&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=inazuma+hamon&source=bl&ots=AcDSUsQGkG&sig=XKLb_MuAAKUQc5LDLod6Gr0tc1M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yx0PVa56yo3IBMrBgqgI&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=inazuma%20hamon&f=false

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/terms/terms.htm

 

If you still have questions, let me know...

[Ken-Hawaii]

Jason, nijuba is when a blade has been quenched twice, & once you've seen it, you're not likely to mistake it for anything else. Darcy posted some good photos at http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/15550-hataraki-clarification-if-your-feeling-charitable/.

 

And this page (http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_hamon_hataraki.html) shows a lot of hataraki that might help your understanding.

 

Ken

[cabowen]

Now up to 4 times....

 

Ken, swords were quenched once. Nijuba can form from a single quench, depending on the steel, forging, construction, clay, etc.

 

You would loose the first hamon if you reheated and quenched a second time....

[Alex A]

Hi Jason, you stated "as I recalled it said when hada activity crosses into the hamon"

 

Im wondering if your confused about ji-nie, as its composed of the same particles that make up the hamon.

[jason_mazzy]

I must truly thank you all for your time. I believe I have reached my potential with just reading books and not speaking Japanese. I must find some sort of club so I can get more hand on experience outside of my own collection. I have used books and this website and other resources to get a basic understanding but I am very much a show me person. If I see it in hand and have comparison examples I am likely to retain it forever. I will start a new post regarding any club help.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Jason finding a club would be a very good thing. I'll keep my thumbs up so you'll find one near you.

 

Maybe Usagiyas information section will be of assistance as they have pics of blades instead of drawings: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/poetical%20terms.html

[Darcy]

The source photo is not really great for trying to analyze, as others have pointed out, it is mostly a white cloud from the interaction of the hadori with the lights. The rest is kind of low res.

 

The sprinklings of black that are visible in the ji are chikei. They are harder than the rest of the ji. Chikei can break down into sprays of ji nie. 

 

Inazuma looks like lightning that crosses in and out of the hamon into the ji. Norishige's work can have so much inazuma and chikei that it is not clear at times where the hataraki of the yakiba stop and those of the ji begin. 

 

Kinsugji is a similar structure but below the line of the hamon.