1645, 1945 Or Both? Katana With Higo Style Saya That's Been To Hell And Back

[Chango]

Please be patient with me as I'm a noob and am trying to learn; I just paid $1050 for this sword, advertised by a dealer as having a "1600s blade" and am trying to determine what I've really got.

 

 

 

Judging by the burn spot, general condition and orange writing on the saya, I strongly suspect it went through WW2 and came to the USA as a GI souvenier sword. The saya has also been looted of all it's furniture, though you can tell it was a real piece of art worthy of an important owner once upon a time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blade is signed "Sesshu Ju Fujiwara Tadayuki" (Thank You Chris Bowen!) which would put the sword's age within the 1600s if it was a real signature but I'm not knowledgeble enough to know if it's likely or if this is an obvious Meiji era recreation. I'd be greatful for some guidance...

 

Here are some more pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blade is deeply pitted and I can't make out much but it seems straight, decently made lightweight and surpringly petite (one clue anyway... it certainly wasn't made with the physiques of modern western folks in mind!) You can just make out the (suguha?) hamon too. Other than the signature there are no stamps or markings and I don't see any "fatal" defects but I'm not sure polishing would be worthwile on a sword in this condition.

 

Just for fun here it is against my Paul Chen Bushido faux-katana blade and showing one glaring deficiency in today's "authentic" non-Japanese manufactured katanas... they are freaking overweight (just like us Americans  ) The Chinese blade is of similar length but easily weighs twice as much as the Japanese blade :

 

 

...

[Chango]

...

I really like the Tsuka; it's a perfect fit on the blade and seems very high quality work, though the tsukamaki is a bit loose, starting to unravel  and seems to be of a more recent vintage than the rest of the Katana:

 

 

 

 

the squid mekugi and "extra bumpy same" look pretty creepy in real life, kinda like nasty bugs and they actually make one instinctively feel a bit hesitant to pick up the sword:

 

 

 

 

There is paper under the same... those non-existant "prayer sheets" that are the stuff of Katana newbie owner legends?

 

 

The Tsuba has seen better days and looks like it came from an archaeological dig. It's got the design for a utility blade while the saya has none so I'm pretty sure at least one of them (if not both) isn't original to the katana. I don't think the tsuba is handmade... probably a 19th-early 20th century casting? I've spent several hours online looking for a "twin" but I haven't seen one yet:

 

 

 

So my impressions are a bit mixed... I wasn't expecting a flawless masterpiece for that price but I don't want to be hosed either and I think I probably paid a little bit too much for this katana. I'm no expert but it seems the Koshirae is mismatched and cobbled together from several sources to make a functional katana, probably in the 20th century but not in my lifetime.

 

I'm certain I've at least got a piece of Japanese history...even though that history is more likely about cave related horrors on Iowo Jima or banzi charges on Guadacanal than classic shinto/edo samurai doing bored Edo Samurai-ish things like art, drinking, dueling, exterminating Christians and enforcing extreme laws on peasants under the Tokugawa Shogunate or taking romanticized journeys up and down the Tokaido road.

 

What do you think? I want to restore the sword myself but don't want to damage/change anything truly historical. Would you consider this a blade that should be saved from a hobbyist's tinkering... would it even be worth it to look into getting a professional appraisal? Are my interpretations in the right direction or do you see other clues I'm missing?

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Jason,

Best advice I have is don't attempt any restoration yourself.  Anything you try is likely to do damage and some of the things you might try could do serious, irreparable damage.

As for having the work done by properly trained artisans, don't be in a hurry for any of it.  Take some time to learn more, show your sword to people who know more than you do, get a properly trained polisher to tell you what makes sense with it, and study as much as you can.  The more time you take before spending more money on this or another sword, the better the decisions you'll make.

Grey

[Lingonberry]

I've seen plenty of swords like this pop up in gun shows, gun stores, and estate sales. I could be wrong but I don't see anything WW2 about the fittings on that sword so it was probably more likely than not bought post-war, possibly by a GI during the occupation, and brought home as a souvenier. I don't think it's a suguha hamon either. Looks a little more gunome to me. Also, though it might just be the pictures, it looks like the yokote appears to be missing. In another thread with a sword with a missing yokote it was mentioned that though it is possible to restore it there would have to be a lot of metal taken off to do so. I'm sure the heavyweights will arrive soon with better information and advice.

[Toryu2020]

Jason -

Looks legit to me. Could still be a "Bring-back" even though it is an older blade. Listen to Grey, fatal flaws could still be hidden by that rust and only a trained polisher can tell you if it is restorable. Nice to have a good clean signature and a jumping off point for your learning. Old newspaper was used in the tsuka going back to the 1600's BTW, so don't make too much of those "prayer sheets"

 

-t

[Kronos]

Looks like a Shinto blade to me. I'd suggest 2 things: try to find examples of the 2 generations of Tadayuki's mei to compare and as Grey said let a trained togishi look at it to determine whether it A) can be polished and B) is worth polishing. From there you can make a better decision. There was a link floating around here somewhere to a Japanese site that had uploaded a copy of Fujishiro's which has examples of both generations signatures in the Shinto volume pages 136/137.

[Kai-Gunto]

The menuki is a lobster

[Chango]

The menuki is a lobster

 

I spelled menuki wrong too. You're right, they're definitely not  squid, I'm finding photos of other similar examples online now.

[Chango]

Looks like a Shinto blade to me. I'd suggest 2 things: try to find examples of the 2 generations of Tadayuki's mei to compare and as Grey said let a trained togishi look at it to determine whether it A) can be polished and B) is worth polishing. From there you can make a better decision. There was a link floating around here somewhere to a Japanese site that had uploaded a copy of Fujishiro's which has examples of both generations signatures in the Shinto volume pages 136/137.

 

I'm definitely interested in seeing that link!

 

Jason -

Looks legit to me. Could still be a "Bring-back" even though it is an older blade. Listen to Grey, fatal flaws could still be hidden by that rust and only a trained polisher can tell you if it is restorable. Nice to have a good clean signature and a jumping off point for your learning. Old newspaper was used in the tsuka going back to the 1600's BTW, so don't make too much of those "prayer sheets"

 

-t

 

Thanks James and Thomas... that makes me feel better about the blade and the honesty of the sword's seller. I'm definitely going to do some more research. Even in bad shape, having a real Shinto era blade makes the price worth it to me.

 

Hi Jason,

Best advice I have is don't attempt any restoration yourself.  Anything you try is likely to do damage and some of the things you might try could do serious, irreparable damage.

As for having the work done by properly trained artisans, don't be in a hurry for any of it.  Take some time to learn more, show your sword to people who know more than you do, get a properly trained polisher to tell you what makes sense with it, and study as much as you can.  The more time you take before spending more money on this or another sword, the better the decisions you'll make.

Grey

 

Agreed. Hope I don't sound like I'm too full of myself but I'm pretty skilled and capable with my hands (my other hobby is building WWII model capital ships in larger scales)... my problem is that I have no experience with nihonto so I don't know what's "correct" and what isn't. A quality but incorrectly executed job is obviously no better than a poor quality one.

 

I'm so tempted to go to work on the sword because I found some photos of a (modern) Komiya swordsmith's work that is absolutely beautiful and very similar to this sword (http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito34.htm). I think I could pull off a similar look... but looks aren't the most important thing to consider here.

 

So anyway, I've decided that my first real Japanese sword is NOT going to face the wrath of my workbench ... but I am gonna keep learning.

 

I've seen plenty of swords like this pop up in gun shows, gun stores, and estate sales. I could be wrong but I don't see anything WW2 about the fittings on that sword so it was probably more likely than not bought post-war, possibly by a GI during the occupation, and brought home as a souvenier. I don't think it's a suguha hamon either. Looks a little more gunome to me. Also, though it might just be the pictures, it looks like the yokote appears to be missing. In another thread with a sword with a missing yokote it was mentioned that though it is possible to restore it there would have to be a lot of metal taken off to do so. I'm sure the heavyweights will arrive soon with better information and advice.

 

Not sure if this photo is any better as it's hard to photograph it but the Yokote is barely there stll and is hard to see because of the heavy pitting.

 

 

I do appreciate all the information I'm getting!

 

What are your opinions on the koshirae... does it seem to match up with the blade's vintage after all?

[cabowen]

Here's my take: listen to what others have said regarding proper care and restoration. Don't mess with this on your own.

 

In my opinion you have a Shinto. I also think there is a better than even chance it can be restored. IF the signature is good, it would probably be worth the expense, provided there aren't any flaws which are not visible in the photos.

 

Do some research and find some signatures to compare to using google and the kanji I provided. If you get stuck, post them and ask for help...

[Kronos]

http://www.militaria.co.za/Books/Fujishiro%20-%20Nihon%20Toko%20Jiten,%20Shinto.pdf

 

Looks like the signature could be good but hard to tell from the photo's provided. You'd need to compare to several examples.

[Chango]

http://www.militaria.co.za/Books/Fujishiro%20-%20Nihon%20Toko%20Jiten,%20Shinto.pdf

 

Looks like the signature could be good but hard to tell from the photo's provided. You'd need to compare to several examples.

 

Thank you for steering me to that, I was hoping it was on a PDF somwhere. I don't speak Japanese so it's a bit of a challenge but I'm trying... I don't see Tadyuki on pages 136-137 though, still looking.

 

Here are a few more detail shots of the mei:

 

 

 

 

On an interesting side note, I first discounted the habaki as a cheap brass modern replacement as it is relatively poor fitting and looked really scratched up, but a closer look reveals it's copper with gold? foil and all the "scratches" (other than the wear marks)  are purposely laid down perpendicular to the blade.

 

 

 

A quick internet search reveals to me these are exactly the characteristics an original habaki should have, so I learned something new and found out something interesting and historic about a part I wrongly though was garbage. I can definitely see why it would be stupid and ultimately tragic to just start messing with an old sword when you know nothing about it...

[Chango]

OK, found Tadayuki on page 75. Any possible way someone could give me a quick and dirty translation of that section? Basically I'd like to find out which generation is the likely candidate for the maker of the blade... I think there are three Sesshu Ju Fujiwara Tadayuki (s) from the second half of the 1600s...

[Kronos]

I think there's only oshigata for the Shodai in that PDF. You'll need to be careful though as he's relatively highly rated so will no doubt be a target for forgeries.

[Geraint]

James, minor points compared to the excitement.  The menuki are usually described as crayfish and the tsuba is not cast but has suffered a bit from rust.  I think it will be quite nice when you have found out how to clean it.

 

Enjoy it all!

Oh and is the habaki gold foil or plated?  If you have a look at the base you will see where the foil has been folded over the edge of the copper base

[Chango]

I can't honestly tell on the gold  foil vs plated question...

 

 

 

I did some minor cleanup on the tsuba with alcohol and an old toothbrush, as well as looking for details or signatures. I didn't find any signatures and there are no casting marks that I can see, but I discovered tiny gold dots that appear to have been inlayed into the iron on some of the "splashes" along the lines of what's found on the Fuchi and Kashira...

 

 

 

 

I think I'm changing my mind on the "mishmash koshirae theory"... I see there's been copper poured or hammered into the blade slot for a tight fit... is this a sign it was retrofitted onto the blade or was that commonplace... in other words, were tsuba generally bought separately rather than being made specifically for a certain blade?

[Chango]

I think there's only oshigata for the Shodai in that PDF. You'll need to be careful though as he's relatively highly rated so will no doubt be a target for forgeries.

 

Very true and I'm not sure I trust the signature.

[Grey Doffin]

The habaki is plated, not foiled.  Rarely were tsuba, or any fitting other than the habaki, made for a specific sword.  The copper pieces in your tsuba (seki-gane) could have been fit for your sword or left in place from a previous sword it was mounted to.

 

Grey

[tony edmunds]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but the saya is covered in Botan Same which is/was quite rare and expensive,

Assuming the saya is original to the blade someone really thought a lot of it when it was last mounted

[Chango]

OK.. after plenty of research (and plenty of going back and forth)  I think it's safe to say I know what I've got with a reasonable degree of certainty. It's been quite the detective story for me but I've really had fun!

 

I would normally be scared #!*!tless to buy an antique off ebay with all the fakes and general crap that's peddled there but this one really seemed different than the swords I've been seeing there for months... guess you could say it "spoke" to me. I've also done an about-face on what I want to do with this sword; in my mind it's gone from a potential weekend hobby distraction to a tangible piece of history that I need to care for and protect, even in it's current rough state.

 

Anyway, like I said I've more or less come to a working conclusion on what I've really got here. I think it's a Shinto era katana of the Tadatsuna school of swordsmiths who were active in the area near present day Osaka in the mid to late 1600s (more specifically 1660-1680-ish) as it appears to match the dimensions/details for that school very well and Fujiwara Tadayuki (the name on the mei) was a star swordsmith of that school. My mei seems to match very well with Tadayuki's known works so if it's a forged signature someone did a very good job of it and would have likely been a contemporary of Tadayuki (mine is the far right):

 

 

I'm thinking the current Higo style koshirae is a bit later in vintage but still very old (maybe 1700s?) and was put together for the blade at considerable expense to a previous owner of the sword. First (beyond the fact it's rare same specifically patterned to resemble some kind of plant blossoms) is the the fact that all the saya furniture is missing. To me that suggests it was originally made of stuff worth looting (i.e., stuff that is shiny and golden!) which also meant the sword's samurai owner was able to afford special treatment for his daisho so he must have been fairly rich and/or powerful. Also, if the saya belongs to another sword it was a really lucky fit... it holds the blade perfectly snug without rattling or falling out if it's turned upside-down but still allows for a smooth, fast draw of the blade.

 

 After cleaning up the tsuba and looking more carefully at the details, things really do look less "clunky" to my eyes and of higher quality/artistic merit than I initially thought. Also a lot of that "cheap clunky feeling" comes because the sword is currently missing a seppa, something I didn't initially realize being a noob and all.

 

I've  also found photos of quite a few similarly decked out katana/wakizashi in mueusms, so it must be "high style"! :

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Samurai_swords,_Victoria_%26_Albert_Museum,_London_-_DSCF0364.JPG

 

http://education.asianart.org/explore-resources/artwork/short-sword-wakizashi-and-long-sword-katana

 

http://www.harvardartmuseums.org/collections/object/206291

 

I can't help but wonder if it was in better condition, would my little sword belong in a museum too?

 

The dealer I bought the sword from didn't know much about it's history, except that it was sold to him by a woman who's uncle had it in his estate but died around 40 years ago so it's been here in the States for some time. The dealer assumed the burn-damaged saya was battle damage; it must be old because the charred portion of the saya doesn't smell like fire at all. There is an orange scribble on the saya; I can only make out the letter "3" but it still leads me to believe the sword is a war trophy and probably owes it's current condition to WW2. There are no chips or signs of a sword's intended purpose on the blade; maybe it survived a bombing? Who knows?... it's all guesses but man I wish that sword could talk!

 

Anway, on the financial front  (provided it's a real Tadayuki blade) it looks like I would pretty much break-even if I got the sword professionally restored by qualified folks in Japan... It may even be worth trying to get papers for it someday. It definitely would be worth it to me to see a good sword saved from history's junkpile so I think it might be justifiable to explore those options/possibilities in the future.

 

Thanks again everyone for steering me in the right direction! I've really enjoyed digging for information on this sword and am pretty sure the Nihonto bug has bitten hard.