mumei tachi ID

[Jeff Pringle]

Greetings,

Nice forum you have here!

 

This tachi blade was attached to a pair of nice menuki I recently found at an estate sale, and I’d like some opinions on its age (gendaito or shinshinto?), school, etc. The blade had been rusted and then cleaned with a scotchbright pad so most details are obscured (at least they left the tang alone!), but it is made in the traditional way, jigane is a very low-contrast masame in the small section I checked.

I’m thinking Shinshinto Yamato school working in a Nanbokucho style, does that seem accurate?

Nagasa: 77.6 cm

Nakago: 28.7 cm

[Brian]

Hi jeff,

Welcome to the forum.

What did the tsuka look like that came with the blade? Did it have the extra mekugi ana at the bottom?

If not, then this would lead me to believe it was originally a Gendaito mounted in the 1944 pattern mounts?

 

Brian

[takakage]

Hello,

it is a lovely sword, i like this suguta.

due to the very long nakago and 2 mekugi ana, strong suguta and kissaki, i think it is shin shinto may be bakumatsu period.

few shin shinto swords are in masame with sugu ha (among them norikatsu)

you should show it to a shinza...........

 

Patrick M.

[mike yeon]

The long nakago with the double mekugi-ana lends me to agree with shin-shinto as well. The one close up shot looks like the hamon has ara-nie. The sugata doesn't look nambochuko or yamato (not enough sori and looks too wide with little taper.)

 

Definitely a good candidate for shinsa. Any idea what the jihada is? good luck and it does look like a good find.

 

mike

[nagamaki - Franco]

  Brian said:

Hi jeff,

Welcome to the forum.

What did the tsuka look like that came with the blade? Did it have the extra mekugi ana at the bottom?

If not, then this would lead me to believe it was originally a Gendaito mounted in the 1944 pattern mounts?

 

Brian

 

First impression leans towards Brian's notion. Based on images this sword looks oil quenched

[doug e lewis]

i am too much a newbie to have a good opinion on the sword, but i would love to see the menuki. got any pic. the tsuba and tsuka also. thanx

doug e

[roninjje]

Franco, I have to disagree with the oil quenching. I tend to think shin shinto from the color of the nakago (at least as how it appears on my screen )

 

I like the sugata, seems strong.

 

Makes a nice first impression.

[Stephen]

the sugata is outstanding, when was the last time you saw a 30+" oil quenched blade, plus it looks like it has some nice large nei, id have it polished, or at least looked at by Bob Benson, the lower peg hole may have been from a late war gunto, but id think maybe a Iaido set up, would like to see more pix though.

 

BTW welcome to the NMB

[takakage]

the two mekugi ana are usual to late shin shinto time, i have seen same thing on long shigehide sword and norikatsu at aoi-art.

morever i have never seen oil quenched blade with nie.

masame on it is quite unusual, i know that mito sworsmiths love it.

[Jeff Pringle]

Thanks for all the input!

The tsuka is missing the kashira, and the black ito was disintegrating, but it has both mekugi ana and extends about 10 cm beyond the second one. The end of the wood looks like it was shaped for a regular kashira.

The photo of the hamon might be misleading, since I didn’t try to get to the bottom of the pitting there is a lot of noise – I will see if there is a better place to polish a window, and get a better photo this weekend. I’ll try to get a better-lit overall shot, and see if I can capture the boshi as well.

The sugata is what caught my eye initially, the strong lines and a dynamic taper to the kasane that really appeals to the swordsmith in me.

I was looking for a good example of tiger-motif tosogu, so the combination of interesting shape and well-chiseled tiger menuki convinced me to acquire the blade.

[murphda2]

Very Interesting menuki. An identical set sold on ebay a few weeks ago.

 

Murph

[murphda2]

Correction, almost identical !!!

[nagamaki - Franco]

  roninjje said:

Franco, I have to disagree with the oil quenching. I tend to think shin shinto from the color of the nakago (at least as how it appears on my screen )

 

I like the sugata, seems strong.

 

Makes a nice first impression.

 

  Stephen said:

when was the last time you saw a 30+" oil quenched blade, plus it looks like it has some nice large nei

 

  Jeff Pringle said:

The photo of the hamon might be misleading, since I didn’t try to get to the bottom of the pitting there is a lot of noise – I will see if there is a better place to polish a window, and get a better photo this weekend.

 

hey gents,

 

first, it would help if I noticed the length before speaking ,

and based upon this I'm easily swayed toward shinshinto and not oil quenched !

 

However, it still looks as if it might have been oil quenched. If this is so after Jeff has attempted to open a window, then there is the possibility this sword has been exposed to high heat. Looking especially at the steel in the ji of the second image tends to support this thought. Hopefully, I'm completely wrong about this and will be eating crow.

[Jeff Pringle]

Hey, Murph –

Same workshop for sure, too bad the photos are not a little crisper. The chiseling seems washed out/rounded off on the ebay pair, making them look like they’ve been aggressively refinished – which might explain the different size stripes? How much did they fetch, if it is not impolite to ask?

 

Franco –

Could you elaborate on how the ji can indicate exposure to high heat/re-tempering?

I looked into the steel close to the hamachi and found more of a mokume grain, but did not have time to really get a clear window polished. What I have seen so far makes me think the blade deserves a real polish…there is some interesting stuff going on in the steel.

 

Jeff

[bdgrange]

This is more likely from the bakumatsu period. It could be from somewhere in Kyushu.

Probably from Satsuma with the long nakago and double mekugiana was found usefull with for their style of fighting.

It could be from Higo with Tiger menuki referencing Katsumitsu for instance, the great tiger killer. In which case could be of the Dotanuki school.

The koshirae might have been an indicator of where as well.

The yasurime are fine and well done taking much time to accomplish.

A very interesting piece.

my thoughts

bdgrange

[nagamaki - Franco]

  Jeff Pringle said:

Franco –

Could you elaborate on how the ji can indicate exposure to high heat/re-tempering?

I looked into the steel close to the hamachi and found more of a mokume grain, but did not have time to really get a clear window polished. What I have seen so far makes me think the blade deserves a real polish…there is some interesting stuff going on in the steel.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

when exposed to high heat the steel becomes dull, lifeless, and often has unnatural pitting in the ji where it had been burnished smooth before. The nie and nioi will become a flat black/grey, losing it's reflective properties.

 

Going back to your first image, the shape on the right, omote, shows reflection of a hamon from the monouchi through the kissaki. In the image on the left, ura, the steel looks unnaturally flat, at least to me. This could be just the lighting and surface condition, and needs further investigation. It is not unusual to see one side of a sword more affected by heat exposure than the other.

 

These last two pics posted look more promising