Possible Echizen Yasutsugu, Mei Evaluation

[Ray Singer]

Hi all,

 

I am out of town and encountered the attached Yasutsugu wakizashi at a local antique show. Any thoughts on the validity/generation would be greatly appreciated. I believe this would be a Mei of the Edo sandai if authentic. Unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to photograph the ka-mon, which is present on the nakago.

 

Best regards,

Ray

[Ray Singer]

Additional photo attached.

[Kronos]

Fortunately Yasutsugu seems to be my speciality, particularly the 3rd gen edo

 

Give me 10 mins and I'll let you know, just need to double check some minor aspects but it looks good so far.

[Kronos]

This is 3rd gen Edo you are correct, the mei looks good and reasonably well cut and although minor discrepancies (it may just be the photo's/angle) yet still easily within the body of papered mei. All the other aspects of the Nakago are correct such as size, shape, nakago-jiri etc (can't see yasurime). I would like some pictures of the blade if possible as it can have the best signature in the world but if the workmanship doesn't match it's meaningless.

 

Overall from the pictures supplied there's nothing to suggest it's not by Sandai Yasutsugu.

[Ray Singer]

Excellent, thank you for looking over the mei James! I have only a few other photos the seller just sent me, not enough to evaluate the workmanship. The horimono is well executed.

 

Best regards,

Ray

[Kronos]

It's hard to tell anything from those pictures but if Shoshin it'd be a rare work as the hamon is somewhat different to the usual and horimono is not often seen on the sandai's work unlike the first two generations who had many horimono done by the Kinai family.

[cabowen]

Horimono looks like those often added later to cover flaws, the way it goes all down the blade without a really coherent composition....

[leo]

Ray,

the engraved mon is well executed, so there is hope.

Poorly executed mon are usually a sure sign of one of the many Yasutsugu fakes.

 

Raymond, James ,

can it be that you use the sam icon? A bit confusing.

 

Best, Martin

[Kronos]

Martin, It's now the default avatar, I should really set one.

[leo]

Oh! that was silly!

Did not know it was the new default avatar.

Wondered already why so many had the same taste!

[Darcy]

The claims of horimono being present to remove flaws are hard to prove other than as speculation because the required evidence is gone (the claimed flaw) so the claimer is in a position of having to prove something for which the primary evidence not existing is part of the claim. Like saying that dinosaur skeletons were placed in the earth 6,000 years ago as a test of faith. There is no way to disprove that claim. In the case of horimono we'd be looking for it to be extra sloppy or the wrong style or in a strange spot or looking fresh and new while the sword shows signs of having had many polishes.

 

The photos are not super great for evaluating the quality of the carving, the style is very close to what is in the book for earlier generations and the horimono look polished down and I think right on for the proposed age of the sword. If a flaw was under there, one guess is as good as another, but the horimono to me look old enough to be there and I wouldn't rule it out looking at the style. So, don't dismiss it yet I think.

 

[cabowen]

My caveat is based primarily on the composition and placement. From the photos, it is difficult to judge the quality. Judgments about the originality of a horimono from the extent it has been polished down are not always accurate; they can be made to look older than they actually are....

 

Without doubt one needs to evaluate the quality, composition, balance, placement, and similarity of these factors to bona fide examples. It was mentioned as a caveat only and as such, meant to simply raise the possibility of it being done to hide a flaw to encourage close scrutiny and caution.

[Brian]

Ray, please post better pics of the blade and horimono if you can. Since it was at a show, hopefully you didn't let it get away   
I don't see much wrong with the composition and placement personally, but that isn't to say it is impossible they are atabori.

Still, Occam's Razor suggests that if the horimono look polished down and the sword looks ok otherwise, then probably it is just polished down. To do horimono to cover a flaw, and then purposefully polish them down to add age is not impossible, but not the first conclusion I would come to.

Either way, the sword needs a better examination. Ray isn't an amateur at this, so I expect he is well qualified to evaluate the sword in hand for anything obvious.

 

Brian

[Ed]

I tried to evaluate the mei but the photos were too small to see clearly.  It is signed in a known signature for this smith, but there are so many fakes of this school that utmost care must be taken when attempting to make a reasonable call.  

 

Same with the horimono, photos are inadequate.  Horimono were prolific on Yasutsugu blades due to the close ties they had with the Kinai school of metal artists. Most horimono you see on legitimate Yasutsugu blades are very good ones.

[Ray Singer]

Ray, please post better pics of the blade and horimono if you can. Since it was at a show, hopefully you didn't let it get away   

I don't see much wrong with the composition and placement personally, but that isn't to say it is impossible they are atabori.

Still, Occam's Razor suggests that if the horimono look polished down and the sword looks ok otherwise, then probably it is just polished down. To do horimono to cover a flaw, and then purposefully polish them down to add age is not impossible, but not the first conclusion I would come to.

Either way, the sword needs a better examination. Ray isn't an amateur at this, so I expect he is well qualified to evaluate the sword in hand for anything obvious.

 

Brian

 

 

Hi Brian,

 

    I know that hiromono is not typical of this generation but scrutinized and felt that the composition was in balance with the sword as a whole. I would stand by my earlier judgment that the hiromono is well executed. I am more critical in this area than most, but the hiromono does disappoint or detract from the sword. I will take a few additional photos in the next day or so and add to the discussion thread for additional review. Thanks again everyone who provide their thoughts, as always it is fortunate that we have this forum to be able to receive quick and valuable feedback...

 

Regards,

Ray

[cabowen]

Here is why I said the horimono, at least to me, is a bit of a question:

 

1. All of this is a bit much and from what I can see, looks gratuitous. It throws the rest out of balance.

 

2. This appears too large and looks like a gaping hole. It is poorly proportioned.

 

3. What is this doing there? It throws things out of balance and it too looks gratuitous.

 

Of course, with the exception of point 2, I am looking at this from an aesthetic standpoint, which is subjective. To each his own...

[Darcy]

Judging form and proportion on a photo that is highly perspective distorted is I think probably not going to yield good results.

 

It is based on this same design as seen in the Shodai's work and if someone was I think going to point by point copy it they would have. I think if they didn't know what they were doing it would be further away. To me it just looks like it belongs in the same school. Gaping holes and all of that I wouldn't want to judge from one photo. If someone was coming along 50 years later to cover up a hole, seems like they'd just make something. This otherwise has to assume that they are at least familiar with the body of work of Echizen blades on some level of expertise. That kind of expertise is also contrary to the thought that the work then is not related to Echizen school and is an amateur cover up job of a flaw that comes somewhere down the road. The concepts conflict.

 

Speaking as a photographer, with a hard light source and highly reflective material there is literally no grey area. If you're not getting light back it means it reflected away or could be a pit down to the center of the earth. Make the same thing out of a material that scatters the light and it will reflect you back something where the scatter back to the camera will be in proportion with the depth. 

 

Personally I just don't think there is enough there in these photos to go to really deep conclusions.

[cabowen]

There's more than enough to make a subjective conclusion about the composition. Judgments about the technical merits would indeed benefit from more info....

[Darcy]

Let's call it a subjective conclusion with a degree of validity lol. Surely a blind man can make a subjective conclusion about a painting too. 

[cabowen]

Surely without experience and the knowledge needed to discriminate, one might as well be blind... but I can't speak to blind men and paintings so I will just have to take your word for it....