Help ID mumei pre-war katana in poor condition

[annen]

Hello NMB members!

I’m hoping to get people’s thoughts on a blade I’ve inherited. It’s in pretty rough shape, but I am curious to learn as much as possible about it. I’m hoping to learn:

- any leads on its origin (time period, school, region)

- which terms correctly apply to its particulars (eg hamon), so I can be confident I’m reading the right things

- whether it’s worth expending further resources on getting it examined in-person, polished properly, etc.

 

Disclaimer: I’ve been reading the many excellent nihonto educational sites out there, but the blade is in poor condition and as a novice it’s hard to know when a given term applies just from online reading. So what follows might be laughably wrong, and I apologize in advance for any wrong uses of terms or confusions on my part. I appreciate the regulars of this forum being willing to share knowledge with absolute beginners.

 

Here’s my best brief description of it, would welcome any comments or corrections if I’m wildly off. I'll post pictures below, and I will be visiting the house where the sword is later in the day so can get a few more pictures or measurements if that would be helpful.

 

Blade:

Measurements (all approximate)

- Nagasa: 71cm / 28”

- Sori: 2.5cm / 1.25”

- Moto haba: 2.9cm

- Saki haba: 2.2cm

- Moto gasane: 8mm

- Saki gasane: 5mm

- Kissaki: 4.5cm

 

- Shape: Shinogi zukuri, torii-zori (I think)

- Mune: Iori-mune

- Horimono: Bo-hi; maru-dome; forward end of hi is a rounded point (not sure of term for this shape) extending past the yokote (hisaki-agari)

- Kissaki: O-kissaki? or “elongated chu”? It is about twice as long as it is wide.

- Boshi: Not sure. Base of boshi is visible but turn-back is hard to see - see pics

- Hamon: Not sure. Irregular wavy with some tiny islands or ghosts floating just above it at points (maybe gunome midare or some notare? toranha with choji? I am grasping at straws here.) - see pics

- Hada: Really not sure! Hard to see because blade is scratched. At least at a handful of points it seems to be irregular wavy (maybe itame/mokume?) but more uniform "sparkles" are visible elsewhere.

 

Nakago:

- Length: 8.25”

- Markings: Mumei, no date, no stamp, no markings that I could see

- Mekugi-ana: One

- Yasurime: Kiri (I think, maybe with some diagonal marks just under the habachi?)

- Overall shape: Futsu

- End shape: Kurijiri or Ha-agari kurijiri (rounded asymmetric)

 

Koshirae

The (buke zukuri) koshirae are all but destroyed - the saya is split, the tsuka has lost its wrap, and the tsuba, mekugi, menuki, kashira, and more are missing. But I’ll describe the remaining pieces in case they might offer some clues:

- Habaki: One piece, copper-colored with dark and lighter color variations. It is worn smooth, but there are faint remnants of diagonal hatch marks on both sides (and some horizontal marks), plus a thin gold line on one side.

- Saya: Wood, with black matte stipple-textured painted/lacquer exterior (ishime?); one empty rectangular space for kurikata. The bottom section of saya is wrapped in fabric and tape for protection, so I haven’t checked whether the kojiri is present. No other hardware or cord.

- Koiguichi: Dark material (horn?) with black shiny (lacquer?) exterior coating, no ornamentation; detached from saya mouth.

- Fuchi: Plain dark metal with matte uniform dot pattern (nanako shakudo), no ornamentation; front face has gold painted rim around copper-colored center; no markings on the inside

- Seppa: One remains, copper-colored, with rough crosshatch file marks covering one side

- Cord: Flat black cord, of braided fabric (silk?), is tied haphazardly around the tsuka to hold it together - not clear if tsuka-ito or sageo; has small metal clip (under 1 cm square) on cord at one point

- Same: White, wrapped in the “channeled” style (i.e., not full wrap)

 

Provenance

We believe it was given to my great-grandfather, who was an American metallurgist and engineer who developed steel alloys for the auto industry. It would probably have been given to him sometime between 1910 and the 1930s, definitely no later than 1939. We have records of his doing experiments involving “Japanese ores” in the 1920s, so possibly a gift stemming from his buying ores or corresponding with someone in Japan about steel. We don’t think he ever traveled to Japan himself.

 

So, after all that, I’m interested to hear any thoughts people here may have, about this sword's features or possible origin, and about whether it’s worth pursuing more examination/polishing/etc. Pictures to follow. Thank you!

-Anne

[annen]

Some close-ups of the blade.

[annen]

Some pics of the hardware.

[annen]

Last set of pics!

[Brian]

Anne,

Not nearly as bad condition as you make out. This one is far from terrible, and looks to be a very nice piece indeed. Ignoring the koshirae of course, and focussing on the blade, as is correct generally.

Judging by the nice hamon and shape, and well cut groove, I think you have a decent sword there.

Also, the quality of the remaining fuchi and especially the nanako quality makes me think this was a prized sword at one time. I think this is a definite candidate for restoration. At least needs to be checked out by someone, and a polish considered. It won't be cheap, but since the initial outlay was minimal, I would consider it if it were mine.

 

Brian

[hxv]

I agree with Brian: nice sword in good condition. From the look of it, I am guessing shinshinto, made in the style of koto period.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[annen]

Thank you both so much! I've only been researching this for a month or so, but I've grown fond of the sword so am very pleased to hear it seems like a piece worth further effort. If anyone has any other thoughts I'm all ears.

[Gunome]

Hello

 

Your sword looks very interesting.

Looks like a bizen koto.

Koshirae is damaged, but blade seem healthy.

[leo]

Hi,

I can only confirm the previous posts:

blade shoud be polished and submitted to shinsa. It looks like a shinshinto remake of a Koto- Bizen Nanbokucho- period sword, like Omiya-school.

Restoration of this koshirae will require some effort. I would stick with a shirasaya, but this is a personal decision.

 

Best, Martin

[Jean]

Sebastien,

 

Check the picture titled "mune side of the tang" and the Yasurime. Check the hamachi and see how crisp it is.

 

Not older than late Shinshinto and perhap Meiji, taking into account the story of this blade.

 

Very good candidate for polish Koto Bizen utsushi ( copy of Koto Bizen blade).

 

As I use to say, it is my personal opinion and I share it with myself (but I could be wrong )

 

BTW Anne, very good pictures, all that were needed are there

[cabowen]

I agree with the above. This was a nice blade and koshirae. It is in desperate need of restoration in its present state.

 

The blade reminds me of work by the Koyama Munetsugu group from the Shinshinto period.

 

Please take good care of it...

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Anne,

I agree with the above with one notable exception. Unless you plan to become a serious student/collector of Japanese swords I wouldn't recommend a polish. Polish is expensive (with habaki and shira-saya it will be between 2 and 3 thousand $US), it does nothing to protect the sword that a very light coat of machine oil wouldn't do as well, and polishes are fragile and fussy to maintain. If your interest in the sword is as a family heirloom or cultural artifact, you can enjoy it just fine as is.

Beginners often are tough on polishes; what starts out flawless and beautiful can become stained, corroded, and scratched if the owner isn't meticulous about care. Every time a sword is polished it looses some of its surface and eventually, after too many polishes, it starts to show its less beautiful innards (we call this 'tired'). No one should have a sword polished if he or she isn't prepared to take special care (don't have the sword out on display, make sure no one touches the blade or swings the sword, look at it closely at least once a month to check for corrosion, change the oil periodically, etc.). Even if you think you are prepared to take proper care, take some time to learn more before you send it for polish.

In the mean time, make sure there is a horn or bamboo pin through the hole in the tsuka and nakago. Without the pin the blade can slide down inside the scabbard and shatter its point. If the pin (mekugi) is missing whittle a replacement from a chopstick. Here is a care and etiquette brochure to read carefully a couple times.

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

Where do you live? Maybe there's someone close by who can take a look at your sword and give you more information.

Cheers, Grey

[Uechi]

You have the option of submitting the blade to a qualified polisher where he can open a "window" for evaluation. It is basically a small portion of the blade that is polished enough to reveal details hidden by scratches, rust and other corrosion and won't

cost you a ton of money. Once that is done you can decide with the help of an expert/s whether it is worth submitting it for a full polish and shinsa.

 

JDromm

[Jean]

Taking care is not so difficulut as long you are a bit carefull. Oiling the blade depends on where you live. I live in Paris, I have never oiled my blades. If you leave in a temperate country not on the seaside, in a relatively dry countryside, no need to oil the blade. Cost of restoration:

 

- polishing: around 2000/3000$

- shirasaya: around 800$

- habaki: around 400$

 

Total: around 4000$

 

Is it worth: though it is unsigned, I think it is worth.

[cabowen]

  Jean said:

Taking care is not so difficulut as long you are a bit carefull. Oiling the blade depends on where you live. I live in Paris, I have never oiled my blades. If you leave in a temperate country not on the seaside, in a relatively dry countryside, no need to oil the blade. Cost of restoration:

 

- polishing: around 2000/3000$

- shirasaya: around 800$

- habaki: around 400$

 

Total: around 4000$

 

Is it worth: though it is unsigned, I think it is worth.

 

To that, add another $500-$600 or so for postage, insurance, import/export and agent fees.

 

To restore the mounting, perhaps $1500 or so, depending on how much lacquer work there is, and if there are any missing items.

 

I have sent items for restoration to Japan for several people who inherited their swords, telling them upfront it will cost more than the item could be sold for. To them, the sentimental value made it worthwhile. And they were in the financial position to do so...Your situation may be different...

 

Whatever you do, please take good care of it....

[jason_mazzy]

I expected a much worse blade when you described it but the pictures show a very decent blade with little rust comparative to many seen. Seems like a good candidate to look into further.

[annen]

Thank you again for the further thoughts!

Just some quick responses: Yes, I intend to take good care of it, or at least prevent more damage until we can figure out best next steps. I do understand a proper polishing, shinsa, and new koshirae would be quite expensive; thank you for the warnings and general cost estimates to back that up. It's good to hear there is no rush to get it polished and I can take my time reading up. As far as I know, it hasn't been oiled or even looked at in many, many years. For the time being, I have it stored horizontally on top of a tall bookshelf in a little-used room, well away from light, moisture, and curious children.

 

The condition of the blade is a bit worse in other places than it looks in the close-up photos I posted, since those are photos where the surface qualities can be more easily seen (i.e., not obscured by scratches or small rust dots). It does look as if it was used to cut boxes or the like, and one small section looks like someone has taken sandpaper to it -- and experimentally confirmed that the hamon is harder than the rest of the blade surface! But I'm very glad to hear people are more optimistic about the condition than I was at first. I guess you have all seen some pretty beat-up blades in your studies!

 

As to koshirae vs shirasaya: The koshirae are fascinating but new ones are not a priority to me; shirasaya would certainly be a better first step. I would rather take a longer time, save up, and see it back in correct koshirae to match the original fuchi etc, which I think are quite handsome in their restraint. (I do wonder if the missing parts, such as the tsuba, were as plain as the fuchi, or if they had some shiny ornamentation that made them a target for being stripped and sold along the way.) Mainly included the pics in case they help in figuring out the history - for example, the quality of the nanako as Brian says, or the original markings and subsequent wear on the habaki.

 

Thank you especially for the thoughts about its origin! Shinshinto copies must pose their own problems for identification; in rendering the old styles, did those later smiths include their own distinctive stylistic tells, or did they just copy the old style as closely as possible? (Looking briefly at Koyama Munetsugu, it sounds like he was from Kuwana, which was a center for metal casting during the relevant period... so, wild speculation, I wonder if my great-grandfather might have been in touch with someone from that area about metal casting or industrial improvements.)

 

As to immediate steps: Suppose I were going to apply a light coating of sewing machine oil to it, following as closely as possible the NBTHK procedure. Don't worry, I know not to mess with the tang. Should I take any steps before applying the oil to remove or somehow neutralize the existing red rust or black spots on the blade (how?), or clean the blade with soap and water (followed by alcohol to help dry it)? I don't want to apply oil and thereby accelerate damage by sealing in rust or finger acids or attracting scratchy crud from inside the saya.

 

Also, I'm in the Washington D.C.-Baltimore area, if anyone has a suggestion about a reputable person who could examine the blade in person.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Anne,

Don't try to clean the blade before oiling. Anything you may try is likely to do more harm than good.

Grey

[Ken-Hawaii]

Good start on studying Nihonto, Anne. Welcome to the forum.

 

In most of the utsushi blades I've seen, the jigane & hada are very plain & dull-looking compared to their real Koto counterparts, with only a few exceptions. That doesn't make them any less "real" or valuable for studying. It's my understanding that smiths making utsushi tried their best to match the exact method of forging as were used in the Kamakura & Nambokucho eras; however, so many of the original techniques were lost through history that it's not that difficult to tell most utsushi from their older brethren.

 

I hope you've invested in at least a couple of books to get your knowledgebase in gear.

 

Ken

[annen]

Thank you for the continued followups. Roger on the no-cleaning, Grey.

 

And I haven't picked up any books yet, Ken, although I suppose that should be on my list of next steps.

 

Thank you all very much for the help, and if I develop any better guesses as I go, I'll update here.

[singlechange]

Anne,

Private message sent regarding Washington, D.C.-Baltimore, Maryland sword club contact.

 

Robert

[Stephen]

Anne

I commend you on your homework, picking up the lingo, and overall grasp for a newbie....well done. I think you have a fine sword, most worthy of being looked at by a pro togi. My vote put in shirasaya to keep it in controlled humidity. Looking forward to seeing this in polish someday or in for sale section .

[Stephen]

seen this on FB

 

lots of like for your sword

 

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