Securing a collection in the UK

[Kronos]

Not sure if this would be better in the Izakaya but feel free to move if it's in the wrong section.

 

My collection has now grown in value to such a degree that I really require collectors/fine art insurance and a safe however I find myself somewhat lost, especially in relation to Insurance as standard contents insurance requires a valuation which is somewhat hard to come by. I was wondering what the UK collectors here used or recommended in terms of these 2 things. For the insurance if possible I would like something that would include "worldwide cover" so they would be insured while in Japan for restoration/Shinsa if such a thing exists. For the safe just a reputable company that one of you could recommend may suffice.

 

 

 

I would also like to add that this forum has been an invaluable source of knowledge and guidance and everyone has been so generous with their time and willingness to help a simple newbie like me. The admins and Brian do a fantastic job as well and I don't now where I'd be with out all of you guys so a big thank you for all that everyone here does to keep interest in Nihonto alive and provide a platform for new collectors to bridge the gap in what can be a difficult hobby to get involved in

[brannow]

Hi,

 

I would check and see if they offer insurance in the UK. I used to have them not I have it though another company that is specific to dealers. They might require photos. They do require a safe and monitored alarm system. Also do some research on safes because not all safes are created equal. Youtube has some videos on safe that go over what to look for.

 

http://www.collectinsure.com/

 

Hope this helps!

[b.hennick]

Hello:

I, a Canadian collector, contacted a couple of US insurers of collectables and they only insure in the USA. In Canada they want to insure swords as the same as they use for diamonds 1.5% of value. I suggest that you buy a good safe and have an alarm system. Make sure that the safe is bolted to the floor. Even then, a pro will take what he wants when he wants. I have seem some interesting hidden rooms and hidden safes. You might want to look into those.

[watsonmil]

Dear All,

I am very fortunate in that the Insurance Company I use, ... I've used the same company all my life. They agreed to insure my collection as part of my household contents. All they asked was for an itemized listing of all items and the values I put on them. I have All Peril Insurance so am covered for Fire, Theft, Water Damage, etc. The company sent over a representative to see how they were stored ( on display ). He said in over 40 years you've never had a claim and although technically we could ask you to take out a Fine Arts Floater but we will in consideration of your patronage overlook this. As he pointed out ... if your home burns ... it matters little if its furniture or swords and we still get extra premium because of the increase in household contents value. Then he went on to say as far as theft goes, ... anyone stealing this stuff would be a fool as they would be caught too easily. The trouble with most Insurance Companies are they are like the rest of big Corporations and Governments .... they are ALL greedy to take advantage of the consumer. I am one of the VERY LUCKY few and NO, ... I will out of mutual respect not divulge the name of the Insurance Company outside of saying they are honest and fair and understanding.

Really at the cost of a Fine Arts Floater, ... most people would be better off with a good SAFE and a handy revolver ( or if a UK resident a Safe and pre-paid Funeral Arrangements ).

 

... Ron Watson

[Loco Al]

Hi Kronos,

 

What approximate value are we talking about and what is your current address? :D

 

I agree with the others. Nothing beats a good safe and a monitored home alarm system. Unless your home's security is absolutely assured, I would not leave swords on display (in display cases or on sword stands) when I was not home. Unless of course they were just cheap swords or you have so much money that their loss would not be an inconvenience. Insuring art is not cheap. Don't just buy a cheap gun safe. Get something solid and heavy. My safe cost me nearly $5000 and I would consider it to be the bare minimum.

 

Alan

[DanC]

I don't know. Unless you need a forklift to move the safe, the steel will be thin enough a cordless cut off saw will open it up in a couple minutes. If they know you have something they can sell, a thief is going to be able to get it.

[Loco Al]

Yeh, but unless you live in a remote area, they are not likely to spend too much time in your home attempting to break into the safe with the alarm blaring. Even a cheap gun safe is better than nothing. If they are out on display, then they just grab and run. A cordless saw is not gonna get through a good safe in a couple of minutes, Dan. Most smash and grab thieves are not that dedicated. It takes a concerted effort to break into a good safe.

 

Alan

[DanC]

I assumed that targeted thefts are more common to collectors than smash and grabs.

[Derek]

Maybe 1 min 43 sec.......

 

[Loco Al]

I assumed that targeted thefts are more common to collectors than smash and grabs.

 

Targeted thefts? But if you didn't stand out in the street shouting "I have swords", then how would they know what you have?

 

Renshi, that's a cheap safe! Exactly what I was talking about. By the way, those are some serious heavy wrecking bars that they are using in that video. Even with those big pry-bars, it takes some concerted effort from those two guys to get it open. Note also that they first throw the safe on it's back and have to have a lot of "elbow" room to work freely. This is contrived. Most home thieves don't generally carry those things along with them. They don't easily fit in the pocket and they are very very heavy. Trust me, I have one. Don't ask me what I use it for!

Where did you say you live?

 

Alan

[Kronos]

I don't live in a "targetted thefts" area unfortunately, any burglary will be the smash and grab amateur style so anything that will be too much trouble for them would suffice as they'd probably be after cheap electronics they can easily sell.

[cabowen]

Someone once told me that even the largest, strongest, most secure safe can be opened very easily and quickly....All it takes is a gun to one's head, or that of a loved one....

 

Dr. Hawley was robbed twice and from what I have been told, was injured in the second robbery.

 

Good insurance is about the best protection available against a determined thief. Unless of course you can construct a Fort Knox type of defense and are willing to defend it at all costs...

[Alex A]

I live in the UK, like Ron, mine are covered under the household insurance. Each time ive bought, ive simply called the insurer and added it, usually adds about £27 onto the annual premium.

[Jean]

In fact, swords are cumbersome when moving in a urban environment, smaller objects are more important for burglars. In fact, the easiest way is to send the burglars see the neighbours by discouraging them. I have stickers with warning "remote alarm" on the door. The neighbours on the same floor have none.... (they also have a remote alarm).

[Dr Fox]

Targeted thefts? But if you didn't stand out in the street shouting "I have swords", then how would they know what you have?

 

Renshi, that's a cheap safe! Exactly what I was talking about. By the way, those are some serious heavy wrecking bars that they are using in that video. Even with those big pry-bars, it takes some concerted effort from those two guys to get it open. Note also that they first throw the safe on it's back and have to have a lot of "elbow" room to work freely. This is contrived. Most home thieves don't generally carry those things along with them. They don't easily fit in the pocket and they are very very heavy. Trust me, I have one. Don't ask me what I use it for!

Where did you say you live?

 

Alan

Agree, but if that safe was in an alcove, bolted wall and floor, then its a different ball game. The law of leverage can't be used. And just how many safes can be pushed onto their backs, no this is a sales boost demo, and favours the sellers of safes. 

[Kai-Gunto]

Mine is under household insurance with max value 10.000 usd per item. No limited on how many items.

[Ed]

Place this sign in the yard.

 

 

 

 

[Ken-Hawaii]

I love the sign, Ed! Fits my neighbors perfectly, too!

 

James, one easy way to protect the swords in a safe is to hang a few Chinese fakes on the wall next to it...dull ones.

 

My safe is solid 3/8" (1 cm) steel with huge bars to lock it. And it's bolted to my concrete floor, too. Weighs 1,020 pounds. Probably would be left alone.

 

Ken

[Steve Waszak]

I find two or three mastiffs to be a remarkably effective deterrent to thieves.  My dogs, plus a fire-resistant safe, is about all I need...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

 

 

[Adrian]

 First problem with installing a decent safe is that it risks to attract some unwanted attention.  These things are heavy and it will require some time to unload and to transport inside the house (even worse if we're discussing about an apartment inside a tall building.  All it takes is a shady character in the area during the process and your house suddenly becomes an interesting target. Perhaps even for thieves who know what they're doing and don't use crowbars.

 

 Besides, keep in mind what Chris said, that's unfortunately very true.

 

 I'm not saying that a home safe is an absurd idea, just that it has some cons that aren't always very obvious. Sometimes a "secret" room with concrete walls, a solid door and a standalone&monitored alarm system can be way safer.

[Clement]

Interesting thread, i was wondering the same question.

 

I don't trust insurance at all, they always find a way to charge and blame you for whatever happen. You never get you money back with them.

 

What about a safe in a secret place ?

Because the place is very well hidden, they can't find the place. And even they do, they have to spend twice the time to open the safe.

Time is everything for thieves.

[Loco Al]

Yes, ideally the safe should be hidden (a closet, for example) and secured so that it can not be moved or tipped over.

 

First and foremost, one should have an alarm system (monitored preferably). That will put some time pressure on the thieves.

 

Get two safes: The better safe hidden. A cheaper, decoy safe, which is in an obvious location to distract the thieves and buy more time.

 

Alan