Rare tanto published in 1935 was discovered in my collection

[Christian Chaffee]

First I want to say Congrats to Brian Robinson for this website. He has done an amazing job to promote this field of collecting by providing everyone interested in nihonto with this venue. I am fortunate to be able to say that I was doing business with Brian before he took over NMB in 2006, and consider him to be my friend...even though we never met in person.

 

After many years of searching for a truly rare sword, I am very pleased to report that an important tanto was sitting unrecognized in my collection for years. I got an email from a sword expert/friend, who saw the oshigata in a book, and recognized it as one of my swords. I was able to purchase the book, which was published in Japan in Showa 9. There are several pages of text with many rows of kanji about my sword, and an oshigata of both sides of the tang shown. It states (in part) that my tanto is one of the earliest known dated examples, and the earliest known example which shows a connection between two schools. The full translation is being worked on now, and I hope my many questions are answered. I wonder who owned it in 1935, so that it was included in the book. I wonder if the sword had an important status in 1935, like Juto. I wonder how it got from being published in a book in Japan in 1935, to where I bought it about 2007-8. If this sword could tell stories, I bet they would be most interesting.

 

It has been a long time since I have had the time to really enjoy my swords. For many years, I have actively advertised to buy them, and always make the time to check out each call. I am constantly buying fresh out of the woodwork swords, and putting away what I think are the better ones, and putting others on eBay to support my addiction to search for more. I don't have any Japanese swords on eBay now, and won't for a while, but remember my eBay user name (finearts29mv), as I always guarantee every sword I sell to be accurately described.

 

I am no sword expert, and know only a handful of kanji, but I have gone to most of the Japanese sword shows held in the US over the last 20+ years, and have learned what a good sword looks like. I have difficulty telling the difference between good and a great blade. I find most of my swords fresh out of the woodwork, buying them from the veterans, and their family's, who have had them since WWII. i also buy swords at estate sales, antique shows, gun shows, sword shows, and anywhere I can find one. :D

 

I have a website: Realnihonto.com, which has been dormant ever since I had a friend build it for me about 8 years ago. I have been planning on launching this sword website for years, but I have been swamped with other projects and life. I also realize I am not qualified to price or describe what I have accurately, which is likely part of the reason I keep putting this website on the back burner. I need to apologize to many for all the emails that I ignored.

 

This is the first time I have posted on NMB in 2 1/2 years, and have no idea how many of the members I know. if you know me, please send me a message, and let me know you are a friend. I hope to have more time in the next few months to organize and get my website active, so please be patient.

 

Thanks, Christian Chaffee

[Jussi Ekholm]

Christian, pictures please.

 

Will be very nice to hear the whole story once you've got the research done.

[bone]

Congratulations!

[Christian Chaffee]

Here is an image of the book (which has the oshigata of my sword's tang), with it's sleeve. I don't want to say more, until I get the translation, and know more about what is written. I hope someone can read the title, and tell me something about the book.

[Bugyotsuji]

Maybe 刀剣実證鑑定法 by 清水孝教, published by 太陽堂

[Brian]

Not even a name of the smith as a teaser?

 

Brian

[Christian Chaffee]

Hi Brian,

 

Giving the name of the smith would be too easy!

 

But then you are right... a teaser is a good idea~!

 

Here is a clue:

 

This smith is considered to be an ancestor of the Monju Shiro.

[Christian Chaffee]

The translation about him being an ancestor of the Monju Shiro, could have meant a descendant of the Monju Shiro. I don't read any of the kani, so I got this clue from an old "hard to read" translation. Still it's a good obscure not too easy.... clue!

[Brian]

So Kanemori or Kanekiyo?

 

Brian

[Christian Chaffee]

Hi Brian,

 

It is not Kanemori or Kanekiyo, but you already know who the smith is...

 

I mentioned this tanto in an email I sent to you back on 4/4/2006, shortly after buying it.

 

Back then, I was wrong about the date... thought it was 1390, but it turned out to be 1338-9.

 

Hey Brian... don't let the cat out of the bag yet.... as you are the only one who knows the name of the smith... until one of these sleuth/detectives on NMB can figure it out.

[xcivicdx]

very very interested and following this now.

[Peter Bleed]

Wow, Christian, I am looking forward to seeing this sword when you reveal it. If it is the one I think it is, I sold it a couple year ago because two shinsas said it had been retempered and xrays showed that the nakago was welded on. I always wondered who ended up with it. Small world, ay?

Peter

[cabowen]

oooooh! A mystery!

[Christian Chaffee]

Hey Peter,

 

Funny Guy~!

 

I am very glad to be able to tell you it's not the same sword you sold.

 

This tanto received TH papers by the NBTHK around 2007, and has a sayagaki by Mr. Tanobe.

 

Good to cross paths again!

[Christian Chaffee]

Hi Chris Bowen,

 

Yes, it is a mystery... until the translation is finished.

 

Can you read the cover of the book?

 

Thanks, Christian

[Bugyotsuji]

Christian, he is using old characters. As I posted above, "Maybe 刀剣実證鑑定法 by 清水孝教, published by 太陽堂"

 

"Token Jissho Kantei Ho" by Shimizu *Takanori? (*His first name is difficult for me to read), published by Taiyo-Do

[Darcy]

I dunno, if it's papered you could just tell everyone what it is.

 

If you don't want to tell anyone then what is the point of a teaser half-reveal subject?

[Brian]

Hi Brian,

 

It is not Kanemori or Kanekiyo, but you already know who the smith is...

 

I mentioned this tanto in an email I sent to you back on 4/4/2006, shortly after buying it.

 

Back then, I was wrong about the date... thought it was 1390, but it turned out to be 1338-9.

 

Hey Brian... don't let the cat out of the bag yet.... as you are the only one who knows the name of the smith... until one of these sleuth/detectives on NMB can figure it out.

I don't know the name of the smith either, until I get home and check if I have all the 2006 emails. :?

I guess we will all know soon enough. Markus would be the logical choice for a fast and economical paid translation.

 

Brian

[Stephen]

if i remember right it was that Masamune coverd with Mantetsu steel the discovered when a amature polish opend it up...yep think that was the one.

[Christian Chaffee]

Okay another clue.

 

His father was the founder of the school, and at least one of his swords is a National Treasure.

[leo]

Probably Kanetsugu or his son Kanesada.

I checked on this book "Token Jissho Kantei Ho". Koshoyama offers an edition from 1929.

 

Martin

[Christian Chaffee]

Hi Martin,

 

You are right.

 

Yes, it is a Yamato Tegai Kanetsugu tanto, dated 1338-9.

[Loco Al]

In your first clue, you said that he was the ancestor of the Monju Shiro.

Who was the Monju Shiro? Was that Kanekiyo?

 

I found more than one reference to "monju shiro".

 

Alan

[Christian Chaffee]

Hi Alan,

 

Here is a copy and past to the link where you can read the information I found, and used in that clue.

 

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=46IYtI ... gu&f=false

[lonely panet]

how about you just post some damb pics and put us out of our misery PLEASE!!!!!!

[bigjohnshea]

 

I gotta be honest, this thread with no photos is just completely annoying and meaningless.

 

However, while I was waiting to see some photos of this sword, I discovered a long lost Picasso on the back of a child's painting I bought at a rummage sale in France. I'm not going to take any photos of it even though I know you want to see it, but let's discuss it and see what everyone else here knows about it. Anybody care to guess what year it was made in? I'll give you a hint: It was one of the years after he started painting, but before he died.

[cabowen]

 

I gotta be honest, this thread with no photos is just completely annoying and meaningless.

 

However, while I was waiting to see some photos of this sword, I discovered a long lost Picasso on the back of a child's painting I bought at a rummage sale in France. I'm not going to take any photos of it even though I know you want to see it, but let's discuss it and see what everyone else here knows about it. Anybody care to guess what year it was made in? I'll give you a hint: It was one of the years after he started painting, but before he died.

 

 

[Christian Chaffee]

Hello BigJohnShea,

 

Okay, so your frustration has inspired your creativity.... very funny "parallel art" discovery story about the Picasso. Too many BS discovery stories out there, which lack proof, so I'll provide some proof.

 

There are some people who don't come here as often as they would like (like me) so as I found time, I added a couple of clues, and sure enough, one of the sleuth's here on NMB used the clues, did research, and discovered the maker. I do agree, stories without images lack substance. I do have many images of my tanto, but don't want to let the cat entirely out of the bag, but then ...I seem to be doing it a little at a time.

 

I am posting 4 images of it. One of each side to show the sugata, and close ups of the tip showing highly detailed forging and tempering characteristics at the tip. I hope these images look as good on here on NMB as they do my computer.

 

By the way, my interest in Japanese swords is a very tiny percentage of what I do. I am an antique dealer, and have made some amazing discoveries in art. Last year, I found a painting at the Long Beach outdoor antique show for $80, and to make a long story short, it has been authenticated by the foremost expert on the artist, and professionally appraised at $600,000 to $700,000. In addition a color image of it will be shown in a new art reference book. This 3 volume set is being published now, and will be coming out next year. it's titled "Emerging From The Shadows" "Women Artists in California 1860-1960" by Maurine St Gaudens. My painting is going from discovery ....to being published in less than 2 years. It's a 16 X 12 oil by E. Charlton Fortune, and is of the Sardine Canneries in Monterey Harbor in CA. It was painted about 1914. Here is the real kicker... it's an unsigned painting.

 

So, tell me more about your Picasso posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=20807#

[Christian Chaffee]

And to Hamfish... Misery loves company..... and I am still waiting on the complete translation. I am sure you can imagine how I feel... and the only misery is waiting on the information. It makes me wonder.... how it went from being a published sword in Japan in 1935, to the picker who sold it to me with no saya. The blade some how survived a journey, which will always be a mystery. I am hoping it had high papers then, and has a known history. There may be the other side of the story out there... maybe it was confiscated, or turned in to one of police stations. I am sure to someone in Japan, it had to be considered missing after WWII, but then, that doesn't mean it's an officially missing important sword, like one of the known missing National Treasures. I'll update this post when I find out more. Until then, you have a few images of my tanto here on NMB.

[Christian Chaffee]

sorry about two of the same image. Here is the other side of the blade.