oldNJshooter Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 Hello and good morning to all. New guy here looking for some info on a sword that I have. I did a lot of research several years ago but, I'm not satisfied with what I found. Story begins...I have this old Japanese sword. Well, I do and it has been under my control for the past 30 or so years. Prior to that, it was owned by my Father. It has been in my family for 70 years or longer. My Mother passed it on to me when my Father passed. It was given to him by my uncle back in the '40's, it is a WWII GI bring back. It has been identified as a Nihonto due to the size and blade shape. The tang has never been cleaned in any way and in great shape. It has been identified as a family sword, not a military grade. There are two holes in the tang. The blade is in great shape and very sharp. The handle is fragile most likely due to the age. The Mekugi has always been missing. I replaced it with a temp fix by using a piece of bamboo chop stick. The signature on the tang was translated as: Kanabo - school Uemonjo - family name Masatsugu - sword smith The person who supplied me with most of my info said that the signature does not match any in his books and called the signature faked. The smith in question worked around 1570. He also said that there were three generations of smiths from the Kanabo school. I was also told by another "expert" about the same time that the signature matches what he has on file. Other info that I have is: (EIROKU 1558-1592) Chu Jo Saku, Wazamono Signed: Nanto Kanabo Hyoeinojo Masatsugu Nanto Ju Fujiwara Ason Kanabo Hyoeinojo Masatsugu I hope I have spelled everything correctly. I have more including photos of the blade but lets begin here. I had an offer to purchase about ten years ago from yet another "expert" but I passed on it. I'm not looking to sell, just better info. Thanks for any info that anyone may have. Jim Quote
hxv Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 Welcome to the board. If I may, I would like to make three comments. 1. Every post needs to be signed by your real name. That's a rule on NMB. 2. When I hear and read "Jap sword," I cringe. It would not be much to type out "Japanese." 3. Pictures, please! Without pictures, no advice can be given. Regards, Hoanh Quote
raaay Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 welcome , but ditto as the last reply Ray Quote
Stephen Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 Thank you Jim, hope to see pix of mei. You have come to the right place. Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Posted November 24, 2014 Here are a few photos that I took sometime ago. Quote
Rivkin Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 Could you please photograph the entire nakago and rotate the signature so that it is in upwards direction? The sword might look like Kambun shinto and probably average work. But then again with such photos it could be Rai Kunitoshi just as well... Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Posted November 24, 2014 Rivkin said: Could you please photograph the entire nakago and rotate the signature so that it is in upwards direction?The sword might look like Kambun shinto and probably average work. But then again with such photos it could be Rai Kunitoshi just as well... Like this? Quote
brannow Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 Hi Jim, No more like this. The whole nakago both sides. Bill Rannow Mpls, Mn Quote
Rivkin Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 Ugh, my Japanese is really bad, but it looks like Rai-something-tsugu. Rai Minamoto Kunitsugu??? There were some quite famous smiths with such combination, but this is definitely not Hisamichi's work and my feeling is that writing is of rather poor quality. It feels like Shinto-kambun sword of rather average quality... More definite answer can be had with pictures of nakago and the entire blade photographed so that it's entire shape is apparent. Quote
cabowen Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 Sword is signed Kanabo Hyoeinojo Masatsugu believe. Here is a valid signature for comparison. Circa Eiroku (1558)... Quote
Jacques Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 Hi, No comment http://www.touken-sakata.com/%E5%88%80% ... %E7%89%A9/ Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Posted November 25, 2014 brannow said: Hi Jim, No more like this. The whole nakago both sides. Bill Rannow Mpls, Mn I'll try to get to that today. Thanks. Quote
Jean Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 Jim, You have 2 examples of a genuine signature. Compare the Masa kanji of these examples with yours. Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Posted November 25, 2014 cabowen said: Sword is signed Kanabo Hyoeinojo Masatsugu believe. Here is a valid signature for comparison. Circa Eiroku (1558)... [attachment=0].jpg[/attachment] Thank you for confirming the info that I have. The spelling that I have on the family differs from what you posted. Mine says Uemonjo. Yours is the first positive response. Would you have any further info on my blade? Quote
Jean Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 Jim, You are going too fast. First question you should ask yourself is: is the signature genuine or not? If not difficult to have an answer on the blade. You have all the elements to compare. Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Posted November 25, 2014 Jean said: Jim, You are going too fast. First question you should ask yourself is: is the signature genuine or not? If not difficult to have an answer on the blade. You have all the elements to compare. Hence, the reason that I registered here. Prior to coming here, my research from 2007 gave conflicting answers as to the signature being real or fake. Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Posted November 25, 2014 Two additional photos. Quote
Jean Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 Jim, What is your opinion on the Masa kanji on your blade and on the example provided, right now? Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Posted November 25, 2014 Jean said: Jim, What is your opinion on the Masa kanji on your blade and on the example provided, right now? Very similar, not exact. The example given is sharper than mine. Quote
cabowen Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 The signature is not cut with the same power and precision and there is considerable variation in the way the kanji are formed. The nakago jiri is different; the yasuri-me look to be different. All of this points to the likelihood of the signature being false. However, it is not always wise to conclude based on two comparisons alone. You should try to find more valid examples. It would also be a good idea to compare the blade characteristics to those of valid examples. It isn't always easy to determine. This is why there are organizations that specialize in appraising Japanese swords via a process called shinsa. Quote
oldNJshooter Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Posted November 25, 2014 Thanks to all for the info provided. Quote
Jean Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 You can see now what I was pointed at, Jim. This does not mean the blade is poor quality. Quote
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