Sword Etiquette

[BIG]

Hi all,

 

read an old to-ken Society ARTICLE and Wonder about that Daimyo Swords Rest on the

 

Katana kake with the sword hilt on the right side.

 

http://www.to-ken.com/programmeArchive/ ... 2-1965.pdf

 

 

Best Regards

[Marius]

Thanks Peter I have found the Higo/Akasaka comparison very useful, BTW :-)

[george trotter]

I was unaware of this etiquette, or rather I can't recall seeing swords resting with the hilt on the right.

I looked up a book on the Gassan (Mus. of Fine Arts Boston 1989 pp.20-21) and it contains two pictures of what I suppose would be classed as "daimyo swords" but these are resting hilt left.

One is a tachi with tachi mounts by Gassan Sadakazu made in 1916 for Emperor Taisho and the next is a straight blade sword in mounts dated 1921 presented to Crown Prince Hirohito by Sadakatsu.

I suppose these would be classed as "daimyo" swords yet both of these are resting hilt left.

Anyone have any info on this matter?

Regards,

[sanjuro]

My understanding, given that most of this etiquette comes from the Edo period, is that the positioning of the sword on the katana kake is a reflection of the owners readiness for conflict, or as an indication of his feelings toward a guest. Ergo, if one feels threatened by a guest or a visitor one would position the sword such that it was not only easily reached but also easily drawn, ie with the hilt to the right. Likewise in times of war when battle readiness was an issue then the sword would be displayed in such a way as to make it easily available, ie hilt to the right. Etiquette in the Edo period complicated this to be possibly a threatening way to display a sword when times were supposed to be peaceful. If your guest was a friend or family then the hilt would be toward the left to reflect this trusting sentiment. (In practice, it is actually easy to grab and draw a sword in either position).The custom of displaying the sword hilt strictly to the left comes from this period when etiquette became sometimes most complex, and offense could be easily implied. Japanese manners among armed samurai had of necessity to be impeccable lest offence be unintentionally conveyed.

In older times, the sword was displayed according to the owners taste and could be interpreted as his state of mind as to trust in his surroundings and company.

I have also heard it observed that a sword displayed hilt to left is considered to be a 'retired' sword, which most of ours would qualify as.

In many dojo's where a sword or swords are displayed they are rested hilt to right in keeping with a combative nature, or to the left to reflect a studious purpose. In the dojo where I trained if the swords there were displayed hilt to left we were merely training. If it were hilt to right, we were in for a sparring or kata session. It took a while for the newer students to become observant to this. In effect it was a test of observation. (All things may be utilised to aid in teaching).

 

Just my take on the question.

[Guido]

Whenever I invite hostile guests, I put a shotgun on the tv stand behind me. They immediately catch the drift.

My understanding, given that most of this etiquette comes from the Edo period, is that the positioning of the sword on the katana kake is a reflection of the owners readiness for conflict, or as an indication of his feelings toward a guest.

The first (and only) time I read this was in the Warner/Draeger book. Does anyone have other sources, preferably Japanese?

[Drago]

Interesting.

 

So... What is a daimyo sword? If it is just one that once belonged to a damiyo('s family), then probably half the swords out there are displayed the wrong way around...

[Guido]

Btw, a daimyō had a tachimochi sitting to his left, slightly behind him, when receiving guests. This was a page who held a sword upright in his right hand, gripping it towads the sayajiri, so he could hold it towards his master if needed, who then could draw it. This is still custom during the yokozuna entrance ritual at sumō tournaments.

[Jean]

Thanks Guido, I have always wondered about the guy holding an itomaki in his right hand in sumo contests.

[sanjuro]

The first (and only) time I read this was in the Warner/Draeger book.

 

To be honest, I think that is probably where I read of it. Curiously, although I was taught sword etiquette, the subject of which was the correct way of displaying a sword, other than on a katana kake or tachi kake, was either not discussed or was taken pretty much for granted. The part about the dojo way of displaying them was true enough but may have been my sensei's custom rather than established and general practice.

I dont think i have ever read an explanation of this aspect of sword etiquette by a Japanese source.

 

Dr Takeuchi perhaps??? although not among those articles of his to which I have access. Guido is more familiar with Dr takeuchi's full body of work than I am.

[Guido]

No other reliable information? Well, I guess the samurai of yesteryear did the same we do now: they looked it up on Google!

[Brian]

I just checked all my pics of the DTI, and every single dealer in the pics has all their racked swords with the tsuka to the left. Hundreds of them.

Since most people are right handed, it can only be to show it being "at rest" or non-agressive.

Unless they all read the same book and browse Google?

 

Brian

[Baka Gaijin]

In plan view:

 

Are we looking at the Daimyo or is the Daimyo looking at us.........

 

Is the Kake in front of the Daimyo as he faces his subjects?

 

If so, front will appear back and left facing will appear right facing according to one's position.

 

Think about it.........

[BIG]

Love the Newsletters,

 

Finding them here and there....a Great Legacy!

 

http://www.to-ken.com/full.php?article= ... pe=article

 

 

Best Regards

[Gakusee]

Dear all,

 

We are glad you find the To-Ken Society of UK archives useful. This was the main purpose why earlier this year we decided to publish our archives on the web for nihontophiles' benefit. They contain a wealth of information and research collated by some of the most knowledgeable UK collectors and experts over the last fifty years.

 

We are in the process of extending the archive with some more of the old programmes, and in combination with the UK sword register (Clive's oeuvre), they present a valuable source of study.

 

Best,

Michael

[BIG]

Dear all,

 

Save that Treasures ( and the Future ones ) here on NMB.

 

Best Regards

[Jussi Ekholm]

Even though it may sound stupid but I have always just assumed that swords are aligned hilt to the left as they will be displayed omote side showing. Katana koshirae edge upwards, tachi koshirae edge downwards in horizontal stand.

[BIG]

Hi all,

 

https://www.beloit.edu/oie/assets/freem ... empire.pdf

 

 

Best Regards

[Eric H]

A historic testimony of the correct placement of Daimyo‘s swords, the rack placed at the right side of the Daimyo: Wakizashi on the top, Katana on the bottom, cutting edges downwards, thus showing the omote side of the swords. This makes sense.

Of course owners of swords of Daimyo possession have free choice the one or the other way

Thanks for sharing

 

Eric

[Guido]

Tokugawa Yoshinobu, the last shōgun:

[BIG]

Same shogun:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ehokan.jpg

 

 

Best Regards

[BIG]

and Last example, figure 8

 

http://www.univie.ac.at/rel_jap/k/image ... t_2004.pdf

 

Best Regards

[Eric H]

The discussion started based on Torigoye sensei‘s statement, that Daimyo swords - swords of former Daimyo property - should be placed properly on the sword rack the tsuka towards the right, which is believed to be wrong, but often practised by lesser informed people. There is a example in the thread „Hanging Japanese scroll above nihonto display“. On the old paintings the swords are represented with cutting edges downwards and upwards, but the tsuka towards the right. We don‘t know if these historical illustrations represent the reality or if they are the outcome of free artistic design. Anyway I for one have learned the lesson given by Torigoye sensei.

As said in the article it is the explanation of photographs which are sometimes seen in Japanese sword literature of swords resting on a rack in the described manner, in what one would normally suppose was the wrong way round.

 

Eric

[Baka Gaijin]

Good evening Peter.,

 

The image you showed has always fascinated me:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ehokan.jpg

 

What secret are the two Daimyo in the second row party to?

 

Cheers

[BIG]

Hi Malcolm,

 

good question

 

Best Regards

[Brian]

Malcolm,

Check the incomplete link.

 

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

@ Eric : Only tachi are generally put on a Kake cutting edge down. I do not know where you get the "forner Daimyo posession" story from. If you have written contemporary evidence please post it.

 

 

KM

[Eric H]

Henk-Jan,

Please read Torigoye‘s comment concerning the placement of „Daimyo swords“ on a rack. Because I‘m unaware of a special category of „Daimyo sword“ whether in sword literature nor sword glossary, so I suppose this label is suitable to swords out of Daimyo property. Contrarily to the comment of a member: ..."than probably half the swords out there are displayed the wrong way around“...I believe that counting the MMB members of total 3057 today, perhaps a handful of them are proud possessors of Daimyo swords. Well such categorized swords can be displayed by well-informed collectors in the recommended manner, giving this way a hint to another well-informed collector what kind of swords are displayed.

Recently a picture of the Ichimonji Imaaranami Tachi was posted on the board. This is kind of „Daimyo sword“ in my understanding.

 

Eric

[bubba-san]

My understanding, given that most of this etiquette comes from the Edo period, is that the positioning of the sword on the katana kake is a reflection of the owners readiness for conflict, or as an indication of his feelings toward a guest. Ergo, if one feels threatened by a guest or a visitor one would position the sword such that it was not only easily reached but also easily drawn, ie with the hilt to the right. Likewise in times of war when battle readiness was an issue then the sword would be displayed in such a way as to make it easily available, ie hilt to the right. Etiquette in the Edo period complicated this to be possibly a threatening way to display a sword when times were supposed to be peaceful. If your guest was a friend or family then the hilt would be toward the left to reflect this trusting sentiment. (In practice, it is actually easy to grab and draw a sword in either position).The custom of displaying the sword hilt strictly to the left comes from this period when etiquette became sometimes most complex, and offense could be easily implied. Japanese manners among armed samurai had of necessity to be impeccable lest offence be unintentionally conveyed.

In older times, the sword was displayed according to the owners taste and could be interpreted as his state of mind as to trust in his surroundings and company.

I have also heard it observed that a sword displayed hilt to left is considered to be a 'retired' sword, which most of ours would qualify as.

In many dojo's where a sword or swords are displayed they are rested hilt to right in keeping with a combative nature, or to the left to reflect a studious purpose. In the dojo where I trained if the swords there were displayed hilt to left we were merely training. If it were hilt to right, we were in for a sparring or kata session. It took a while for the newer students to become observant to this. In effect it was a test of observation. (All things may be utilised to aid in teaching)

 

I have always heard that ! Tsuka facing right = not friend Tsuka facing left = friend...... Old shop owner In Yokosuka told me that !James

 

Just my take on the question.

[DanC]

I would like to add a comment, that when looking at old photos, particularly online, everyone should be aware that the image can possibly be mirrored. I have noticed this now and then when looking at old photos of places I am familiar with, where I know the image is mirrored. Obviously there is no single reason for every case, but a common cause is when scanning slides, or negatives, and feeding them backwards.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

[CurtisR]

Also, as a point to note while in a Dojo (or perhaps a home with one), if the sword kissaki is pointing toward the Shomen, it's very rude. Had my behind ripped about this while training in MJER.

 

Curtis R.