Kronos Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 On 3/29/2015 at 1:58 PM, cabowen said: The Meikan lists this smith as being a Naoe Shizu smith, from Mino, student of Kaneuji, from O'an (1368-75). This paper was written ostensibly in 1973, 2 years before the Meikan was published. So some other source was used for the info on the paper above. Who knows where it came from...I think the important take away about it is it was attributed to a Naoe Shizu group smith, not Bizen, and Nanbokucho period, by people who had it in hand and who should know something about what they are looking at...I think it's a reasonable start. The Jigane doesn't look Naoe Shizu, it could be but would need better photo's. Quote
1tallsword Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Posted March 29, 2015 Im fairly confident after a lengthy in hand inspection, speaking with several people,looking at comparables on line and putting all the pieces of the puzzle together that what chris bowen is stating is correct. the sword is a soshu influenced Mino naoe shizu kanenobu, I have also spoke recently with someone that recognized the sword from the past and had held it in hand and they felt strongly the same. 1 Quote
Jean Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 If dices are tossed Chris, exit the Kantei fun :-) My comments were about inconstancies in the handwritten comments on the paper "kanteisho" Jeremy, As stated by everybody, difficult to kantei from your pictures. I don't really know if you have seen how kantei works at NBTHK but if you go on Aoi Art website, you will see how it must be done. Taking into account that your sword is in good polish, you should give a full description of the blade, length, sori, a description of the hada and of the boshi. Now a few comments, the utsuri on Naoe Shizu is not a kantei point, I don't remember having seen one in Naoe Shizu swords I have handled, in fact I own an example and there is no utsuri (which is not surprising taking into account the mix of Soshu/Tegai). The hada should be standing itame with a strong tendancy to itame nagare (once again Tegai influence). The boshi could be hakikake, unable to see it clearly in the pictures. The hada should have a lot of ji nie with many chikei, the hamon shoul show sunagashi and some kinsuji. All these kantei points hardly appear in your pictures.mm Now, what are your description of hamon/hada/boshi as you have the sword in hands? What about the utsuri? Quote
1tallsword Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 thank you Jean for your time and comments. Yes I agree it is near impossible to judge by pictures alone, let alone my terrible pictures that I did apologize for in my initial post. I was only looking for possible opinions in which i got, and to have some fun. I am well aware of the kantei process. thank you for mentioning the aoi art website, as I have viewed it in the past I am always up for reminders.thank you. sorry if my initial description was not up to your standards, I will do my best to improve on my skills next time. I did however give the basic info needed less the sori measurement. it is 1.2cm. I just figured by the full length picture one could tell it was a very shallow sori. Let me say I am no expert and do not portray to be. I always try to stay humble and modest and have fun. since you ask, this is what i see when in hand. Hamon- Gunome,small ko-ashi I see Kinsuji and sunagashi and bright Nei..... Jihada - Itame and masame.... Boshi- ko-maru / hakikake. I see a faint shirake utsuri. I hope this is of use to you. thank you. Quote
Jean Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 Yes Jeremy, Thank you for your answer, I think that should you have mentioned from the start the full description of the hamon, hada and boshi, a lot of people would have gone for Mino. Unfortunately, the masame, sunagashi ... were not visible on your pictures. Kantei from pictures is very difficult. At 95%, I am not able to picture these hataraki, this is why the description must be precise and is needed. I am just going to stress a point as example. You did not mentioned from the start there was utsuri, then upon request you confirm there was one. When someone hears utsuri, he goes to Bizen as did Darcy and others. Now you have just mentioned shirake utsuri in your above post. Shirake utsuri leads generally to Mino and excludes Bizen and Yamashiro. :-) Quote
1tallsword Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 very nice pictures Jean, much better pictures than mine I like your blade. yes there was some error on my part and lack of description on some parts of the blade. as you pointed out I failed to mention shirake utsuri earlier in my posts when confirming it had utsuri. you make a good point and I hope this was a good lesson for anyone reading that the most minor detail left out can hinder ones decision in kantei. for example by me confirming utsuri, led everyone to bizen, and it should. but for some reason ,not thinking ,(maybe I had one of those insomnia nights Darcy spoke of ) i did not mention shirake, if I had done so the answers would have been mino as Jean pointed out. In the future i will do my best to list every precise detail I see and make it not so much a guessing game or shot in the dark so to speak,cheers.... Quote
Jean Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 A useful worksheet to join to your kantei session Jeremy Sheet0001.pdfFetching info... Sheet.docxFetching info... Quote
1tallsword Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 thank you very much Jean. I will use these ! much apreciated, cheers. Quote
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