Tradition & period

[hxv]

Greetings,

 

I have a sword that I would like to get your comments on regarding tradition, period, etc.

 

1. The nagasa is 24.75", osuriage.

2. It has bohi with soehi on both sides. The bohi stops slightly before the yokote, making me think it was added later, not original to the sword.

3. It's iori mune with a low roof, and the shinogiji is average - not high but not low.

4. The bohi and soehi look well done. Their depths and widths remain uniform over the length of the sword, and they remain parallel to each other.

5. The hada is fine itame. I don't see ji nie or utsuri at all.

6. The hamon is suguha, and the nioiguchi is consistently nie deki over the length of the sword.

 

At first look, I thought this sword is Muromachi, but now I am not so sure. I am open to late Nambokucho/early Muromachi at this point. I think I can rule out Bizen (suguha hamon and lack of utsuri) and Mino (suguha hamon). I can also rule out Soshu (lack of ji nie and simple suguha hamon). That leaves Yamashiro and Yamato. Lack of a high shinogiji and the simple suguha hamon leads me to believe Yamashiro.

 

I would appreciate you input and comments regarding the sword and/or my conjectures, good or bad. If you have a suggestion regarding school, that would be much appreciated as well.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[hxv]

More pics.

 

Hoanh

[Darcy]

Interesting.

 

The hi ... I thought could be original but I kind of find myself agreeing with you looking at them towards the yokote as you said. Normally that really doesn't mean much as it is a feature that's seen in some swords. So there is no real science behind my statement here and it is wishy washy as a result.

 

The boshi and the strong nie that are throughout, they kind of border on ara nie. But your photos are big so maybe it is a bit of an optical illusion. Not used to seeing people post such clear photos!

 

But you won't see a boshi like this usually on Yamashiro pieces, not with the hakikake in it. That is kind of more associated with Yamato and into Shizu. The hard question is, how short was it originally? Are the hi really original or added on?

 

I think when you see a boshi like this, in an itame with somewhat coarse nie in the hamon, suguba based, and looking quasi-Soshu like the place to go with the kantei is Taema. "Looks like Yukimitsu but not quite there." Shinogi height is more of an inclusive rule because it is something that can be modified over time. So if you see a diamond cross section then you have something that goes to Yamato. But lacking the diamond cross section could be an artifact of someone "fixing" it ... like at the same time hi were added.

 

Anyway something to think about.

[nagamaki - Franco]

you won't see a boshi like this usually on Yamashiro pieces, not with the hakikake in it.

 

Pardon, , sorry Darcy, cannot agree here ..... Hakikake aside, looks more like flame imo.

 

Image below is hakikake boshi, this example on a Yamashiro sword.

 

 

[hxv]

Darcy,

 

The nie is pretty "regular" size. But as you noted, they look like ara nie because of the magnification. You have given me a new direction, so I will search for examples of Taema school and read up on it.

 

I don't hear objections from either you or Franco regarding the late Nambokucho assessment, so I assume that this is a reasonable guess. I have cleaned up this sword with a couple of uchiko sessions and will take more pictures if I see details not yet shown in previous pictures.

 

Thank you for your inputs, gentlemen.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[nagamaki - Franco]

I don't hear objections from .......... Franco regarding the late Nambokucho assessment, so I assume that this is a reasonable guess.

 

Don't assume.

[hxv]

Franco,

 

What would be your take on the time period? The suguta, extended kissaki, and to some extent (and much less reliable indicators) the bohi soehi, give me the impression of late Nambokucho. I know this is pretty thin evidence, but...

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[giuseppepiva]

The hi looks so oxidized on the nakago that it might well be original, isn't it? Assuming that, how long would the blade be?

 

Giuseppe

http://www.giuseppepiva.com

[Marius]

Kuichigai-ha... and sunagashi... and hakikake... Darcy said Taema, but maybe also Tegai should be taken into account? Nice sword

 

Franco, and this Yamashiro you have posted is a...?

[hxv]

Giuseppe,

 

Determining whether the hi is original or not is very, very difficult, and unless one is absolutely sure, one would be safe to assume that it is not original. Having said that, if we were to assume the hi is original, this type of hi would terminate about 3cm above the hamachi. This configuration would make the bottom nakago ana the original nakago ana, and the original nagasa would be 29". Lots of ifs and conjectures, though.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[giuseppepiva]

Yes, 29" is not that long, so the hi could have been added on a first suriage... I agree we can not assume at all this was its original length.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Franco,What would be your take on the time period?

 

Reluctant to reply, feel this sword needs a serious polish before being assessed. Be that as it may, first impression

Muromachi, Kaga

 

 

Franco, and this Yamashiro you have posted is a...?

 

Koto, Yamashiro, Echizen Rai School, Kuniyasu (1345-1390)

[Marius]

Well, an offshoot then. Echizen Rai must have picked up some influence from Etchu schools. That would explain the hakikake.

[hxv]

After a date with the uchiko ball, the sword shows more activities that I could not see before (see pictures below).

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[cabowen]

You can often get an indication concerning the bo-hi by how deep they are on the blade as compared to in the nakago. If they are original, or nearly so, they are often times materially deeper in the nakago than in the blade which has been polished repeatedly, as older blades tend to be...

[hxv]

Chris,

 

Excellent pointer! Thank you.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[brannow]

I think the first blade posted in this thread looks like an Echizen Rai Chiyozuru and as for period I would say late Kamakura/Nambokucho. Nice sword and it should easily paper in this condition.

[hxv]

Bill,

 

Yes, I concur about the polish. While the polish is not new, it's actually very good - certainly good enough for shinsa. I need to get shirasaya made for it before sending to shinsa. The blade is currently in kaigunto mount. I just looked at many examples of Echizen Rai Chiyozuru blades, and it's quite an interesting comparison. The opinions received so far seem to vary from Yamato to Yamashiro, and from late Kamakura to Muromachi. I am inclined to send it to shinsa, but am undecided between NBTHK or wait until 2015 for NTHK in San Francisco. This is something I have to sort out in my mind first. Thank you for your input.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[brannow]

I would send it the NBTHK.

[hxv]

Bill,

 

I was straddling the fence, but you nudged me over the edge. NBTHK it is!

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[1tallsword]

why not both? send it to NBTHK if you like. but dont rule out the united states shinsa's as well. the costs will be far cheaper, and a lot faster and close to home.. It would also be an interesting comparison. I mean its hard to beat getting papers for your blade for aprox. $300 give or take... just a thought...

[hxv]

Jeremy,

 

I would send it for second opinion if NBTHK appraisal makes absolutely no sense. If I am able to understand the appraisal, then all is well. I have a few more pictures to post. In the OP, I had indicated that I saw no ji nie. Actually, I just didn't look carefully enough. I went over the jihada carefully with my macro lens at the highest magnification level and turned the sword at various angles and under different lighting conditions. It turns out that the jihada is covered very evenly in fine (ko) ji nie, and I see lots of fine chikei, too. I must say this is quite embarrassing, not seeing these things the first time around. No excuses! I think I am more comfortable with the Echizen Rai/Yamashiro/Yamato call. What had me hesitated before was my inability to see ji nie and chikei. I am satisfied now. The attached pictures are taken at random places on the ji hada to show the even distribution of jie nie.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[hxv]

Greetings,

 

Would the spots marked in the pictures be correctly called yubashiri, or are they too close to the yakiba to be yubashiri? If they are not yubashiri, what would be the correct terminology for them?

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[brannow]

Great photos. You should post a photo of your set up for pictures.

[hxv]

Thank you for the compliment. I really enjoy nihonto photography. My set up is functional very simple. The two tripod-mounted LED lights are 100W-equivalent (each). The wood contraption is basically made like a tsuka, but is cut (with a table router) to accept nakago of varying sizes, from tanto-size to large daito-size. The wood "tsuka" is attached to a round, hollow aluminum rod, which itself is mounted outside of a smaller, also hollow, aluminum rod. The outer rod, to which the tsuka is attached, can slide in-out, rotate, and be locked tight at any position with a finger-lockable nut. This inner hollow aluminum rod is affixed to my computer cabinet rack. The inner rod can be moved up-down vertically by simple adjustments on the rack cabinet. So, the net result is that my sword, mounted on the wood "tsuka," can be moved three-dimensionally with ease. Especially helpful is the ability to rotate the wood "tsuka" to catch the lighting just right for the shots. There is no vibration, no free-hand, and the lighting and sword angle is 100% reproducible. If, on any given shot, I have a bit too much light or a bit too little light, I can change the exposure time of the camera and re-shoot the picture. This way, I can precisely control the amount of lighting on a specific feature at a specific location.

 

Equipment-wise, I have a Canon XSi with an IR remote trigger and mounted on tripod. I find that I really do need two lenses: a macro lens Canon EFS 60mm f/2.8 for close up and a Canon EFS 17-85mm for shots that require more depth-of-view than my macros lens can provide.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Peter Bleed]

Hoanh,

This has been a very useful thread. You have helped me look at swords and see things. I also really appreciate the photo of your photo set up. Thanks!

Peter

[mr botanical]

Interesting thread, I recently cought the nihonto photography bug, your pics showed quite well

[hxv]

Peter and James,

 

You are most welcome. This has been quite a learning moment for me. In the past month, I have made a leap in understanding and appreciating nihonto. It makes all the effort worthwhile.

 

Regards,

Hoanh