jutettsu8 Posted October 25, 2014 Report Posted October 25, 2014 So i just bought myself a new nihonto, it has a lot of flaws,scratches and so on. The thing is i want to see the nakago but the mekugi are hidden beneath the rayskin on one side. And there seems to be black lacquer on one and on other parts of the tsuka. Jonas D. Quote
Dr Fox Posted October 25, 2014 Report Posted October 25, 2014 Hi Jonas I think what you mean is that mekugi peg is hidden behind the 'ito' (wrap) not under the 'same' (rayskin)! Can you clarify to get the real answer to your problem? Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Posted October 25, 2014 oh sorry for not being so clear , and my problem was i want to get a look at the nakago but i don't know how to get the mekugi out if one side is hidden. And it's really under the same on one side. I think the previous owner messed with it a bit. Quote
Stephen Posted October 25, 2014 Report Posted October 25, 2014 picture is worth a thousand words, is the same' cracked and may have slid over the whole? Quote
Dr Fox Posted October 25, 2014 Report Posted October 25, 2014 At this moment, I like Stephen can't see how the same can have moved over the peg. But what I would look at is the possibility of 'drawing' the peg, as opposed to driving it out. Obtain a small drill, centre into the peg for a small distance, then turn in a wood screw that is just oversize to the pilot hole. Having got the screw gripping, attempt with a grip to draw the peg out in a straight line towards you. You are dealing with a non valuable replaceable peg. If you are successful the tsuka should come off. Then examine. I would not like to poke or pry the same side, as it could chip and break away. It has been necessary in the past to drill and pick out mekugi. Carefully done, it can be successful. Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted October 25, 2014 Report Posted October 25, 2014 Mekugi is normally hided under the ito on the front side. Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Mekugi is normally hided under the ito on the front side. Maybe on your blades, but not on mine! Ken Quote
george trotter Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 I have seen several blades, including WWII Type 3 mounts, where the mekugi goes into a "blind" hole covered by same at the opposite side. Probably the only "easy" way to get it out is to make a small hole in the same and push it out, or do it using Denis' suggestion. Pics would help. Quote
Brian Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 I've also seen blind holes before, with same covering the one side. No idea why...sloppy work I expect. You can usually remove the mekugi with some effort, and then carefully mark and drill through the same on the other side. Be careful of the ito. Brian Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Posted October 26, 2014 Ok, i got the pictures! And there is some Lacquer on the pins and other areas. Jonas D. Quote
Tokaido Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 WOW! Someone took a lot of efforts to GLUE ANYTING IN PLACE !??! Since there is no ito, it maybe easy to carefully drill out the *black stuff* which may cover mekugi. But be carefull, maybe there are no mekugi or no mekugi ana in the blade below the black stuff. With a glue job like these, anything maybe possibly going on below the wood Be prepared for surprises Greetings Andreas Quote
Dr Fox Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Ughhh Well its fair to say that neither I, or others who offered help here, whilst being blind to images, could have foreseen this presentation. Are there mekugi pegs, or peg under there? Its hard to say. I might even agree, that an attempt here has been made to solidly fix the tsuka to the nakago, if that is the case then, it could lead to the destruction of the tsuka wood to expose the nakago! I am still onside to drill out the mess carefully, a little at a time and s l o w l y, remember there is steel in there somewhere. Getting to the nakago is a job in itself, but then consider if this compound is hard and fast, cleaning the nakago to search for details will be another obstacle. I at this point cannot help further, but wish you well in your endeavours. Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Posted October 26, 2014 Thank You, so there are 2 mekugi's one is hidden on one side without lacquer/paint but it is glued, and one has both sides painted. So the only way is to drill it... That's gonna be stress, But i really want to see the nakago!!! Jonas D. Quote
Stephen Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 not sure its glue. some kind of black paint all over the F/K, if drilling you don't want to hit the nakago id still try to drift them out with a light hammer, they should push out Quote
b.hennick Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 I suggest that you X-ray the blade to see if there are holes. If you have a friendly dentist it would be a snap to do both locations. Quote
Stephen Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Did not realize I could click on pix to enlarge id push out on the dots on the side that has full same, flat head nail smaller than the black dot, or a old drill bit that you don't mind tapping on the working end. My guess both will come out. Quote
Dr Fox Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Can I ask? It has not been mentioned yet, but what kind of sword is it we are sorting here? I for one would like to now, it would give meaning to the effort being expended here. Awaiting with baited breath. Quote
Doug Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 If it were me, I would use a cut off chopstick as a nailset to drive the apparent mekugi out but if that didn't work I would not be against using padded pliers and cracking the core open, slip the handachi kashira off, and see if opening it from the bottom helps. ANYTHING to avoid drilling as I would think it's highly like you would mar the nakago. New handle not a big deal, repatination and moving metal are. Just my thoughts. Doug Quote
MarkB Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 I would approach this problem by trying to dig out the lacquer covering the apparent mekugi ana using a sliver of bone for example, but not using a metal tool or a drill. Then if later you discover the tsuka has been glued on using an epoxy resin like Araldite, then I would place the tsuka in a jar of e.g Dimethylformamide overnight; this will flake and soften the epoxy glue. My father once removed a tsuka this way (though I am not exactly sure what he used, but I know it was an organic chemical solvent). His tsuka was fully wrapped incl menuki etc. This method did not damage the ito, nor the same nor affect the finish of the menuki or kashira, and he was able to gently tap the tsuka off the nakago, and being an organic solvent, it evapoated without leaving residue. (solvents for non-epoxy glues might leave a sticky mess, so be careful what you use) I found a website advertising epoxy solvents among others. http://www.dynaloy.com/products/epoxy Their product is called Dynasolve. caveat: I haven't tried this product. Best of luck. Quote
Stephen Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 well we have us a mystery now, waiting to see the outcome now, good idea to try lifting off the the black covering, exacto knife would work and no worries if lifting top layer. Quote
Dave R Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 I wonder if this has been an "okashi-to", in which case it is not unknown for the nakago to be glued with lacquer into the tsuka! Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Posted October 28, 2014 WOW, didn't notice there was a second page! So first i'm going to show some pictures of the sword itself, The pictures didn't really work out as i hoped , but yeah... The blade itself has loots of scratches, but not a lot of flaws. The hamon is really interesting, but on the pictures they don't appear as i wanted to. I'm first trying to dig out the mekugi's. Is it possible to get the Same off safely? Jonas D. Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Posted October 30, 2014 I'm sad to say that there hasn't been much progression( i'm kinda scared i'm going to mess it up), i only tried to dig the mekugi, and some light brown woodish material came, but if this doesn't work or doesn't seem to be a good idea, i'm going for the drill, which i can only do when my friend is there because i'm not really good with precision drills. -Jonas D. Quote
Stephen Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 once more id try punching it out with a smaller than peg size drift, be it what ever it may be, drilling is not a good idea Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Posted October 30, 2014 ok, i'll take the advice of not drilling, I made a picture of the light brown woodish part. i hope that's the mekugi... Jonas D. Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Posted October 30, 2014 ok, i'll take the advice of not drilling, I made a picture of the light brown woodish part. i hope that's the mekugi... Jonas D. Quote
jutettsu8 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Posted October 30, 2014 a better pic of the first one Jonas D. Quote
MarkB Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 I'd also advise to try to knock out the mekugi/s using a wooden drift. I'd even consider destroying the wooden tsuka rather than risking damage to the nakago by using a steel drill. Tsuka are replaceable, drill-damaged nakago are irretrievable. Quote
b.hennick Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 X-ray anyone? Do that and you will know if there is one hole or two. You will see the size and exact location of the hole(s). Quote
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