reeder Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 My friend was offered this blade recently and had a few questions regarding it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. He's trying to determine originality so he can make a fair offer. TIA. 1) are the signatures Gimei or authentic? 2) is there a way to tell which honami appraiser signed the sword? 3) why only one mei per side? Here's a few picture he sent me of the mei and blade. Quote
christianmalterre Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 an Sa? So! LOL! (an fair offer would be to throw this piece in an recycling container) Christian Quote
paulb Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 careful Christian While I can agree the attribution is less than likely to be genuine I can't see enough detail in the sword to write it off so easily. If a faker hoped to fool a potential buyer the blade should have at least some of the attributes of the named smith. Who can say from what we can see that this isnt an attempted copy? Quote
Brian Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 Christian, That was uncalled for You know better than that. Yes..gimei of the big name Sa. Your friend should evaluate it as any mumei sword and price it accordingly. Brian Quote
John A Stuart Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 This kao is not a known Hon'ami style. Tread carefully. John Quote
christianmalterre Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 well? i of course would agree with you Paul! question is but?....LOL! (seems VERY obvious ) jbw one Sa to compare with(this one i do know very well in fact )(got many times shown-you equally certainly know it) Christian Quote
reeder Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Posted October 14, 2014 No offense was taken here by any of the comments. The help is greatly appreciated and I will refer him to this thread so he can base his offer accordingly. He and I are mainly military collectors and we severely struggle with anything beyond WWII. Thanks again for all the help! Quote
Rich S Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 Does anyone have or know where to get a copy of known Honami kao? Thanks Rich Quote
christianmalterre Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 Markus did publish them(most) in his excellent books! Christian Quote
hxv Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 While the vast majority of swords with "Sa" mei are gimei, one does come across a gem once in a blue moon. Here is a naginata naoshi with a "Sa" kinzogan mei. At first blush, the kinzogan mei looks pretty questionable, but this sword does have NBTHK Hozon paper dated 1986 (new NBTHK system) with Sue Sa attribution, and the workmanship is exceptional. What's more impressive is that Hozon was issued without having to remove the kinzogan mei. Regards, Hoanh Quote
christianmalterre Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 HA!! so it´s you who finally got it!(?) Great!(if so?) BEEER! Christian Quote
hxv Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 Christian, Yes, lucky me! I have never been happier. Hoanh Quote
christianmalterre Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 i just can say-that´s indeed an great message and an BIG pleasure to read! LOL! Christian Quote
Jean Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 Brandon, Time to acquire some automatism.. Your answer to your friend should have been immediate. What should have it been? Quote
reeder Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Posted October 14, 2014 Brandon, Time to acquire some automatism.. Your answer to your friend should have been immediate. What should have it been? "Buy the blade, not the signature." Quote
christianmalterre Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 i am very sorry "if you did not understand mine wording"! this questioned topic "iron" is worth ONLY so to throw it straightaway!(i do repeat me),in an recycling container this is no sword-this is a joke! this is falsation of art! this is gimei in it´s metallurgy,hamon,hada or what else you like to get in input...(in words,explaining an Japanese art sword)! plus! it´s falsation of an well known seal of experts apreciating quality and genuinity ! so in sum -an criminal falsation of honesty passion and artwork! no further comment needed i think! ???????? what´s this getting for an collectors world meanwhile? ebay mentality.... (????) Christian Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 What a nonsense Christian ! You call for things that you might think are proper with this sword, call it old iron, throw it away, falsifying art while totally ignoring that the sword itself might still be a decent piece, notwithstanding someone tried their hands on a mei and kao at one time in its history which was not all too good of a job anyway. However, what forger would use real Gold for this mei and Kao ? Any knowledge of the price of Gold trhough the ages and especially during the Edo period ? Probably not. First test if the gold in the signature is real gold, what Karat. Then decide if it is gimei or not (which it most likely is). But even before that (as Jean correctly points out) Look at the blade. Does it have activity ? Is it genuine ? Is there something there ? If so, and one likes it, buy it. If not, leave it. But simply throwing this into a recycle bin or in the rubbish is not at all an aesthetic way of thinking and it also does not show one bit of respect to the sword, its possible heritage, history and the smith who might factually have forged it. Do you do that also with tsuba ? See one you do not like on a show and tell the seller to dump it in the bin ? Or buy a tsuba which you do not like and throw it in the canal ? Sorry, but that is not the way to look at antiques in my opinion. KM Quote
bone Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 More pics of the blade please and a few stats length etc... btw one of the first things I learned on this site was there are several more Sa's than just THE Sa. I wonder if any of those have been removed as gimei. Also I am not able to judge a signature by the sword, so... yeah. Quote
cabowen Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 The first thing that one should notice is that the blade is suriage/o-suriage and the "Sa" signature is a latter addition. It looks very amateurish and I think most will recognize this for what it is straight away... Throw it in the trash? Nah, throw it on ebay! Quote
bone Posted October 14, 2014 Report Posted October 14, 2014 :dope smacks self: Well of course. Thanks Chris. Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 15, 2014 Report Posted October 15, 2014 Rich, send me an e-mail to jssh@catii.com, & I'll get you the Honami info. Ken Quote
Jean Posted October 15, 2014 Report Posted October 15, 2014 Yes Brandon, so no need for any question :D Your question must be considered as a factual inquiry but by no eans can help establishing a price. Quote
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