Bizen kuni ju XX mitsu

[cisco-san]

Hello,

 

A friend was in London last week and asked me to translate the Mei on this blade.

I am quite sure that this is very easy but...

What I can read is Bizen Kuni ju xx mitsu ( it seems neither naga nor tomo....)

 

many thanks

Klaus

[Tcat]

Masa

[Brian]

Masamitsu?

政光

Easier to read off the sayagaki than the nakago

 

Brian

[Robert Janssen]

政 Masa?

 

edit: damn! still takes me too long

[Brian]

3 Minutes, 3 answers. Don't accuse the forum of being slow.

 

Brian

[Bugyotsuji]

"Bizen (no) Kuni Masamitsu". (No 'ju')

 

PS Masa can be written 雅　昌　正　政 etc.

[cisco-san]

Many thanks for your super fast help

[Peter Bleed]

Klaus,

I want to be what is called (probably inappropriately in the modern world) a "Dutch Uncle."

This problem was TOO EASY. It was not a good use of the NMB and it did not help you develop basic skill. Anyone who is spending modern kinds of money on Japanese swords really ought to command the basics of reading signatures like this one.

I say this largely because this level of ability is easily achieved. I urge you to copy the wonderful 2 page table of sword signature kanji that was presented to us by Robinson in both of his books ( Okagesama de!). These are arranged by stroke count order so a bit of practice will let you command signatures and stroke counting. The kanji pages of John Yumoto's book is also useful. After you learn those basics, paging thru untranslated Japanese books will give you ample opportunity to practice seeing hoe the kanji are actually presented on swords.

We should not let the Board be a crutch.

Peter

[Jean]

I say this largely because this level of ability is easily achieved

 

Peter,

 

You have just ruined my day, I thought I had accomplished an exceptionnal deed by deciphering this kanji

[Robert Janssen]

haha you're totally right Jean The thing is Peter is also kind of right, you just need to put in some effort to get it.

Personally, I only recently started to give decyphering kanji a try, without books in fact!

 

I use these online resources:

http://jisho.org/kanji/radicals/

http://nihongo.j-talk.com/search/kanjis ... arch=paste

 

It's all about breaking the kanji down to the level of the radicals and strokes (counts). click on the radicals you think you see, and by proces of elimination you hopefully get an end result in the list below. if you don't you entered a wrong radical and you just reset it and try again.

To get the name of the kanji, just copy-paste it into the second link. Hope this helps other people to try and decypher.

 

greets,

[Jean]

Bob,

 

The main problem is not as much as deciphering kanji as reading them. The main obstacle is being able to read them, sometimes they are so badly inscribded that you cannot decipher them ( and I am not talking only about Sosho script). Some smiths mei are almost unreadable unless you have seen the mei before, so you cannot even count the stroke. 19th century and 20th century are full of these mei examples. After 40 years of interest in Japanese swords, you will start to recognize at first glance some kanji

[Tcat]

As a beginner to trying to read mei, without knowing Chinese/how to type it I'm not sure I would have been able to read this. It's "easy" when you know, or even when you know how and where to look; but less so without some basic language training. Often when I think of "Masa" in sword mei I will think "正" -beginners prejudice , but as I do not speak Japanese I had to check correct pronunciation of "政". One day I will probably have learned them all by rote, perhaps in 40 years if I study hard

[Jean]

Alex,

 

In this case, the kanji Masa begins by your classical "Masa". In the kinpun mei, the Masa kanji is the simplified one

[Robert Janssen]

Hey Jean,

 

yes you're absolutely right. In fact without the sayagaki I probably wouldn't have been able to make out this masa. But it is my aim by trying to decypher them, and so studying the kanji and trying to recognize (parts of) them that I'll be able to recognize that masa in 20 years instead of 40 years!

[Jean]

BTW Bob, I don't know if it is still printed but I began decades ago with:

 

 

http://books.google.fr/books?id=AJXEXVV ... ba&f=false

 

All you have to know is there

[cisco-san]

Hello,

 

I am sorry to waste bandwidth for this obviously easy and for all here on board easy to translate Mei. I used the attached Kanji table - now its clear that you can see this Kanji on the table Kanji2.jpg (L1) but I did not see it....

 

For all they maybe have the same problems :-) I am attaching the Kanji tables I use (beside the books I have and the http://WWW....)

 

Again, sorry that I wasted your time....

 

Thanks

Klaus

[Geraint]

Dear Klaus.

 

I for one thank you for posting this sword, not least because of the quality kinzogan mei, I would love to see images of the blade. I find that after many years of beating my head against a brick wall I am fairly proficient at the most basic of mei but I also note that the kanji I read most easily are from swords that I own or have studied. I would not have got Masa from the kanji but I certainly will now that I see what Jean is talking about!

 

All the best.

[cisco-san]

Dear Geraint,

 

attached two pics from the blade.

You can see this blade currently in the London Tower museum

 

kind Regards from Vienna

[Geraint]

Thank you Klaus.

 

All the best

[cisco-san]

You are most welcome!