Tadayoshi???? What do you guys think?

[Mark Green]

A friend of mine pulled this out of the attic. Nice 20.5 in wak. Shinto for sure. Can't see the hada. I know what I think, what do you guys think of the signiture? Thanks, Mark G

[Darcy]

The last one of these gojimei Tadayoshi I looked at I said was gimei and it got Tokubetsu Hozon papers.

 

This is the first generation Tadayoshi, and I think the signature is legitimate.

 

It would be nice to see the nakagojiri for confirmation (this should always be included, it's a checksum on the signature), and the sugata would be nice too.

[Mark Green]

Thanks Darcy,

It could be I guess. I will send you some full length pics by email.

It is a very powerful looking wak, in that shiny pre-war polish. With a good bit of grime, and a few rust spots, and nailbiter chips. Nothing bad.

Very bright, wavy chu-Suguha. Standard Ko-maru boshi, can't tell about the turnback.

Very fine, looks like kiri, Yasurime. Or maybe slightly Katta-agari?

Could be a keeper. Mark G

[Mark Green]

another pic

[Mark Green]

try this one

[James]

You may want to email pictures to Roger Robertshaw at http://hizento.com/ who is an expert on Hizen blades.

He'll give you his opinion.

[Mark Green]

Oh yes indeed!

[bdgrange]

It looks good to me.

File marks should be kiri or slightly katte sagari.

Very lucky person.

bdgrange

[Darcy]

I'm interested in what Roger has to say, particularly if he says maybe 5th generation. I'm not so sure about the nakagojiri. Might be more appropriate for #5 and he also signed very similarly with this gojimei signature.

 

The robust look of the sword also makes me think more likely #5 at this point.

[Mark Green]

I was thinking a bit later as well. The sword looks more mid-late 1600's to me. Maybe 1700's. I have sent him the info.

Thanks, Mark

[Jean]

Just a question :

 

I thought that the shinogi should be endingin the angle formed by the V nakagojiri.

 

Here it seems on the pictures that the nakago jiri angle is on the left of the shinogi

[Nobody]

  Jean said:

Just a question :

 

I thought that the shinogi should be endingin the angle formed by the V nakagojiri.

 

Here it seems on the pictures that the nakago jiri angle is on the left of the shinogi

The attached photo shows a nakago of Tadayoshi 1st. Its shape is similar to the nakago in question. Also its mei looks like the mei in question. However, I feel somewhat strange about the last two kanji (忠吉).

[ashibagou]

Looks delicately carved but I can't feel the strength of writing itself. One vote to Gimei...

[Darcy]

This is how I got trapped on the last one I looked at... I went to gimei and the owner submitted and got Tokubetsu Hozon. The mei just looked kind of weak to me. This one actually seems better than the other. I found a lot wrong with the other one heh.

 

I agree that it is not a slam dunk, I think certainly worthwhile to submit for papers. From the body of the sword, it seems more robust than what early Tadayoshi would would be making.

 

Still, not sure because this smith could and did make all kinds of variations in all kinds of styles. The nakagojiri can be tough, the examples in Fujishiro for the Gojimei are all relatively flat and this one is more rounded, yet there is the nice example of the smith's work where he used the rounded one that Nobody posted.

 

Needs someone better than me, I still think you take this one and submit it.

[Mark Green]

Ive looked at about a hundred oshi. of Tadayoshi 1. I'm with you, it's a hard one to call. About as close as it gets without a 'sure bet' though.

And on a sword that matches up about as well.

It does have a tight Itame/kunika hada, and that great chu sugaha with a fat nie line, and even komaru boshi with a nice turnback.

It has been polished a good bit. Not yet tired though, as the hizen thin skin can make a sword tired fast.

I sent Roger some pics. he wants some tripod, hi res. I'll send them off tomorrow. That's a good sign though. he didn't say Gemei.

I think it would be hard for anyone to say that from what I have seen over the past few days.

Some friends in Japan think it is worth sending on as well. I have a nice Yoshitsugu going through polish right now. It is a great looking wak, very much like this one. With a suguha that looks like it was made with a ruler. And the hamon was bright white through the worst rust and grime I have seen on a sword in years. I may have to start a Hizen collection. Very close to Bungo :D

[Mark Green]

Well, Roger feels like I do. Tadayoshi 1 or one great Gemei. Could be down to it's last polish though. It only has to take one more.

I guess it will need to be looked at in Japan. Anyone going over to take some swords to Shinsa?

Who do you guys trust the most? Who has the best pakage deal? Polish, saya, papers. Thanks for the help sword bro's

Mark

[bdgrange]

Colin Griffiths can have it all accomplished in Japan, at one time.

He has utilized the same established agent for many years.

Colin's reputation is without reproach.

 

bdgrange

[zuiho]

Hi,

I have had my own experience with a 5 character tadayoshi mei

on a sword I own which was gimei.

 

About your sword: You should bear in mind that this type signature

is the most common Tadayoshi gimei encountered. One other point

is that the Hizen Tadayoshi smiths most typically signed on the ura

side, tachi-mei. Your sword, I note , is signed on the omote or

katana-mei. This is not a good sign. You mght note that that the

shoshin-mei posted above is tachi-mei.

 

William G.

[Nobody]

  zuiho said:

One other point is that the Hizen Tadayoshi smiths most typically signed on the ura

side, tachi-mei. Your sword, I note , is signed on the omote or

katana-mei. This is not a good sign. You mght note that that the

shoshin-mei posted above is tachi-mei.

Hi,

I am afraid that your theory is not always true.

AFAIK, Tadayoshi's wakizashi and/or tanto were always signed on the omote side.

[Mark Green]

Yes The sword is a wakizashi, and yes I have never seen one not signed as mine.

I still remain very mixed on the mie. The sword is near being tired, as I now have cleaned it up a bit, I have found what I believe are a few well done umegane in the shinogi ji. I will post some pics if I can get some.

Or, it could be core steel starting to show out. Not absolutly sure at this point. Looks more like umegane to me. very well done at that. This just makes me think that the mie may be good.

Umegane is a very expensive, and tough thing to do. Not something done on just any old wakizashi. But a real Tadayoshi, maybe.

Still, "read this all you new guys". The sword seems about 50/50-60/40, to be a 'real' Tadayoshi 1. It is a very fine looking sword that matches up well with the smith, but may be getting to it's very last polish. Some of the chips and slight pitting may need to be a perminent part of this sword due to it's condition [ making it less valuable)

The sword has umegane, or core steel showing on one Shinogi ji ( less value]

The cost of sending it to Japan for polish, habaki, shirasaya, papers, shipping, and fees, likely $3500+

Now, assuming I was ably to aquire this sword for say less than $1000, that woul mean I would have $4500+ into this sword when I got it back from Japan. If It came back with good papers to Tadayoshi 1, and say the polish went well, and all was good, than I may have a sword worth what? Say 8-10000$ maybe.

But, say it came back with big gimei pink, and more core steel showing through, than I may have a sword worth what? 1000$

That is the big delema with a sword like this. If it is a good mei, yeh, a gem. If the opionion on the papers turns out wrong, or not good. Still a nice sword, but paying 4-5000$ for a sword with a big name gimei is a big ouch.

So, we shall see what all my peeps have to say before any sending on will be done. 70/30 would be better.

Mark G

[Mark Green]

Zuiho, Do you still have the gimei tadayoshi? Could you send me some pics of the mie? Thanks, Mark G

[Strider]

Hello, I have a wakazashi that has a very similar mei. If I can figure out how to get the picture from my MAC to the board, it would be interesting if someone could make a side by side photo for comparison by the board. Unfortunately, am technologically challenged and was much happier back in the 80's. If any board member can give me step by step instructions intended for a dummy, I will try to post the picture. I am very interested in determining if my mei is authentic or just another gimei. Scott [/i]

[Brian]

Scott,

 

Take a look at the How-to forum, there should be step by step instructions that should give you a few methods. Am sure one of them is compatible with the 80's :D

 

Brian

[Mark Green]

What do you guys think? I think the one small spot may be core steel, as it is very close to the mune.

[kusunokimasahige]

Overpolished core steel if you ask me.... OUCH..........

 

KM