Stuck in shirasaya?

[Brian]

Just come out of a mild Winter into a fairly hot Spring. Noticed my shirasaya blades are a bit tighter, and some won't close 100%

But that is manageable.

However, a week ago, was looking at some swords from an estate, and in particular a high end wakizashi in shirasaya. It has been opened before a few months ago. However this time no-one (6 large guys) could extract the sword from the saya. It is stuck fast. Tried all reasonable methods, but now we are scared we will damage the habaki, machi or mekugi. Hands flexing against each other will all our force...nothing.

So what is the answer? Do we need a humid climate to free the blade? Or wait for Winter?

What say the NMB wood experts? I know this was covered a while ago, but cannot find it.

 

Brian

[tony edmunds]

Hi Brian

I'm guessing you weren't able to remove the tsuka and then tap the saya off (using proper tools of course).

If we assume an extreme case of shrinkage you might need to split the saya to protect the blade.

Not sure any amount of moisture inn the near environment would reverse the shrinkage but I'll bet our Japanese friends have an answer.

 

Regards

Tony

[Stephen]

Seen this before at tampa show, Tin man from Oklahoma, had half dozen swords would not go allthe way in. Id try a heat room or visa versa

[Brian]

Forgot to mention that the saya has a very nicely done sayagaki by (presumably) Tanobe sensei. Don't want to risk any damage to that either.

 

Brian

[hxv]

Brian,

 

I had this happen to me on a very nice Sue Soshu tanto Mariusz had sold me, courtesy of your friendly & inquisitive Customs officials. Assuming you can remove the tsuka: 1. nail a large nail onto (and through) a 2"x4" length of wood (about a foot longer than the length of the entire sword in the saya), 2. cushion the nail with soft material and carefully insert the protruding (and cushioned) nail through the mekugi ana), 3. holding onto both the nakago and the saya, raising the entire contraption off a concrete floor by a foot or so, then slamming it onto the concrete floor (start out gentle and increase the force as necessary). The inertia of the saya should slip it off the habaki pretty readily. It worked for me effortlessly, AFTER I figured out the contraption.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Brian]

I will ask the owner, but I think the tsuka is just as stuck as the saya.

 

Brian

[Ted Tenold]

Hi Brian,

 

I've encountered this problem before. As a fly fisher I learned this a long time ago rather than bust the ferrules on a $400 fly rod, and have used it with stuck shirasaya also. It does work. With Tanto, the technique might be a little more dodgy due to both handlers being in tight quarters, so use good judgement there. I've never had the need to implement it with a tanto though. A third person gently striking the hand of the person holding the tsuka closest to the koiguchi (as is done to loosen the tsuka normally) can help break the seal so the holders can apply consistent pulling force without trying to jerk it apart too erratically.

 

 

Hope it helps.

[Stephen]

[Jean]

Hi Ted,

 

I have several times encountered this problem as flyfisherman and being on my own here is my technic. Both knees jointed, i flex slightly passing the two stuck pieces behind my knees each hand holding a part near the stuck ferule ( here tsuka and saya) and I slowly and firmly spread my knees.

It never fails.

[b.hennick]

Hi Jean:

I was just going to write about that method. I learned it from a fellow collector. Gentle even pressure by the knees work well.

[Grey Doffin]

A variant of Jean's method:

Standing up, place the sword behind your knees and tightly grasp the saya and tsuka with your hands close together. Now hunker down. As you descend your calves and thighs will force your hands apart and, with luck, break the seal.

And to insure that this problem doesn't happen in the 1st place: when returning the sword to the saya, don't force it closed. It is necessary only the the habaki is gripping the saya; the saya and tsuka don't have to touch.

Grey

[Geraint]

And of course, should you slip doing this manouver then a whole new career opens up before you.

[Jean]

Absolutelysafe, as long as the cutting edge is facing away from the knees, furthermore, if you try this technic, Geraint, hands don't slip and believe me it is harder to do it with varnish rods, much more slippery and much thinner :D

[Brian]

Thank you all for those excellent techniques. Had used Jean's technique on fly rods, but will try it on the wakizashi. But Ted..that is something new to me, and looks like a great idea.

Much appreciated, and will let you know the outcome when I have access to this sword soon.

 

Brian

[Gasam]

I have several times encountered this problem as flyfisherman

 

Yay Flyfishing!!

Preferably with self tied dry flies and a good supply of single malt, but also if the opportunity arises with streamers for sea trout or even a bit of salmon fishing :-)

 

(Sorry a bit off topic all, but I didn`t start it :-) )

[Ken-Hawaii]

Another possible solution is to place the shirasaya in a sealed plastic bag & put it into the freezer. That might pull enough moisture out of the wood to allow its removal. If that doesn't work, try the opposite.

 

Ken

[John A Stuart]

35 years ago I had bought a reel like that, metal. It is around somewhere still. I like the reels now-a-days, synthetic and super light, perfect for my light rods set up with 1 or 2 pound tippet. For grayling. John

[Alex A]

I would try placing the sword in an air tight bag for a day with half a dozen decent sized silica gel desiccant sachets.

[Grey Doffin]

Why all the suggestions to remove moisture from the wood? The problem is that the wood has shrunk from loss of moisture; drying it out would make the problem worse.

Grey

[kusunokimasahige]

from what I have read you should steam the sides of the saya for instance with a kettle to loosen the rice glue.

 

It might take a while but it does not damage the saya nor does it have detrimental effect on the writing on the saya.

 

After a while you then can pry open the two halves.

 

KM

[Alex A]

Your right Grey, i was thinking the wood around the habaki had swelled due to moisture.

[tony edmunds]

Hi Brian

 

When I suggested splitting the saya I should have added by softening the rice glue seams for 2-3 inches form the koiguchi.

That should free the habaki and release the sword.

A re glue followed by some careful filing work to refit and all should be well.

However I realise there are risks when adding moisture to a shirasaya with the blade inside!

 

Tony