Shirasaya cleaning

[Clement]

With the Uchiko must die thread and his advises, i wish to do a deep clean of my shirasaya to avoid or remove the "dried sludge infusion" in it and give my blade a breath.

 

Kunitaro said a while back :

Also,

Shirasaya can be opened and clean(re-shape) inside of Saya and put them back together again.

with this way, you can use clean Shirasaya for a long time.

so, First Shirasaya should make much bigger(thicker) to use longer time.

 

I was also told to put it in hot water, separate parts, clean up and glue the saya back with rice glue.

 

I'm not familiar with this care at all, does anyone have something to add on this procedure or experience to share ?

 

Thanks

[Jean]

Clem,

 

Everything is in your post

[Brian]

I don't think you soak the whole shirasaya

I think a hot cloth that is damp can be used? Hopefully someone will clarify.

 

Brian

[cabowen]

You need to steam or moisten the rice glue holding it together so it softens and lets go. I wouldn't advise dunking the saya in water either- it needs a sponge, not water bath. Get the seams damp, keep them damp for a few days or as long as it takes for the moisture to migrate and soften the glue. Don't get any more of the wood wet than necessary as it tends to raise the grain of the wood.

 

Once you have it opened and cleaned (don't use sandpaper), you will need to make new rice glue (do you know how? http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Rice-Glue) to put it back together, and a pile of big rubber bands to clamp it back together....Be very careful not to apply too much glue or it will squeeze into the inside of the saya and cause problems.

 

Good luck...

[Uechi]

I agree with Chris some directed steam should work just fine and you won't risk warping the wood. Have fun.

[b.hennick]

Instead of rubber bands try pallet Tape it is a clear plastic that sticks to itself. You can make it very tight. I also use it to secure bubble wrap around a sword.

[cabowen]

That's a great tip Barry, though I wonder if once it is tight, will it continue to apply pressure or will it "creep"? It's not a very elastic material, is it????

 

My sayashi always made these giant rubber bands from used inner tubes. One advantage of the rubber bands is they are reusable but for a one-off, not important....

[b.hennick]

I have used it to hold things that I have glued on many occasions without problems. It sticks to itself but is not sticky. It leaves no residue.

[cabowen]

I have used it to hold things that I have glued on many occasions without problems. It sticks to itself but is not sticky. It leaves no residue.

 

[DanC]

For anyone confused, I am pretty sure Barry is refering to the plastic packing/shipping wrap (which is like a narrow roll of saran wrap) and not any type of box tape (which has an adhesive applied to it). In order to use packing wrap, you need to keep tension on it and stretched as you wrap it around the object, so I am not sure if it would be difficult to keep the shirasaya seams aligned while doing this.

 

Personally, I would go with the rubber bands in a couple passes, switching ends with each band and working toward the center. Apply a few on the first pass to hold the seams in place, adjusting as needed, then apply a whole bunch on the second pass so there is as even pressure along the seams as possible.

[bubba-san]

I think the best way to glue and clean your shirasaya in my opinion . I have cut a lot of saya , ( Traditional) is to wrap several layers of twine around the saya after applying glue . It gives very even pressure for a good seal . You may also clean the saya with a saya file . Which is simply a file with long flexible metal rod Use it like a firearm cleaning rod

. As far as cleaning finish.use a weak blend of turpentine and whatever coating or varnish that is currently on saya it will clean the out side without removing original finish just moves it around . Splitting one and gluing back together can be risky. Especially if its an antique one

Respectfully James Saya files..... http://www.namikawa-ltd.com/product/122

[cabowen]

I think he is asking about a shirasaya- most shirasaya have no finish on the wood...unless added stateside.....

[DanC]

Quick question: is it shira-saya, or is it shira-zaya, and what is the difference to a yasume-zaya? The book I am currently reading uses '-zaya', so I am wondering on the proper English usage.

[bubba-san]

I believe its shirasaya, shira means white I think.

[Jean]

And Zaya (or Zahia) means

 

http://www.aufeminin.com/news-people/za ... 95903.html

[DanC]

 

Well, now we know what it means in French.

[bubba-san]

I think he is asking about a shirasaya- most shirasaya have no finish on the wood...unless added stateside.....

 

Hello how are you. In that case I use a mild abrasive like talcum or uchiko powder and finish polishing saya with smooth piece of slightly hard wood and finish with ebota wax. Just a thin coat so as not to clog the pores of the wood but, protect it from stains . James

[bubba-san]

Hmmm great looking Zaya for sure......

[bone]

I think he's talking about cleaning the inside of the saya. I've read a lot about taking it apart and putting it back together but nothing about actually cleaning the gunk from inside. This is something I need to do as well I'm afraid. Any suggestions?

[cabowen]

Alcohol....

[Clement]

I'm talking about cleaning the inside of a shirasaya indeed.

 

So, in few words, one should :

- steam the juncture until the glue soften

- open it and clean with alcohol or file if necessary (http://www.namikawa-ltd.com/product/122)

- make new rice glue following this : http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Rice-Glue

- put it back together with pallet tape (saran wrap is ok ?)

- how long we have to wait until the glue dries ?

 

Do i miss something ?

[cabowen]

I don't think saran wrap is going to put the correct tension on the saya. The pallet wrap is a bit different- it has more stretch and holds the tension.

 

The rest looks pretty good. I would give the glue a few days to completely dry, depending on the humidity.

[DanC]

- put it back together with pallet tape (saran wrap is ok ?)

 

Not tape, pallet wrap. Tape implies an adhesive, so using the term could be confusing to boards members not familiar with English context. I say this based on my frustration when others use Japanese terms where the context is confusing.

 

Personally, I would still opt for a bag of elastic bands, I have a hard enough time putting saran wrap on top of a bowl.

[Clement]

Understood, one other thing : what kind of alcohol to use ?

[b.hennick]

Here is an image of the stuff I get from Lee valley Tools:

Some Dollar stores sell a similar product!

[bubba-san]

Clem , Denatured Alc leaves no residue . You can clean the inside of a saya with a saya file wrapped with soft cotton and tied. Use a little alchohol

I t work fine .... The file handles are 3 ft long . Use it like a Rifle cleaning kit . Or do it traditionaly by splitting the saya . If you have never done it get some help. wood is from Japan #1 wood . Wakizashi is only in kaiso-do polish James

[sanjuro]

Chris said

Alcohol....

 

Works on......sorry, I mean for me every time.

 

Hic!

[Clement]

I think i got the same wrap in french version : http://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produits ... aft-e26090

 

Thank you all for your valuable informations

[Mark S.]

Sorry to state the obvious... but a SUBSTANTIAL drying time after reassembly of the shirasaya should also be planned for. After the steaming process, and the water that is in the rice glue, a good amount of water will probably be soaked up by the wood.

 

The thought of a blade 'sealed' in a shirasaya that is still evaporating water should give one cause for concern...

[DanC]

Just had a thought, would using steam not affect the wood - cause it to swell or warp?