Polish on older swords

[jasongarabedian]

Hello folks,

 

Ive heard two different opinions of the type of edge geometries of swords of different eras. Some people say rhe hira niku of older swords have diminished because of being polished through the centuries, while others have said blades of different eras were made with differing amounts of hiraniku.

For example, shinshinto blades were forged with less niku than the koto period because of different needs and sword schools etc. So does anyone know what the truth is? Were Edo period blades forged with less niku than that of the koto times or has polishing down caused Edo period blades to look more "flat" compared to the hamaguriba type edge of the koto times? Has anyone seen any Edo period swords in their original first polish and can say how the geometry is? Thanks in advance.

 

Jason G

[Marius]

Jason,

 

interesting topic, I am sure this will be a good discussion

 

You have certainly seen this article:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/shaping.html

[jasongarabedian]

Thanks for the link. I have read that one a while back :D

I sure hope it does become a good discussion. Looking forward to hear from the experts here.

 

Cheers

 

Jason G

[Jean]

You will see that hiraniku depends on several factors such as school, smith, togishi, no generalization can be made, Nihonto is made of exception.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~colhartley/Ori ... eSword.htm

[jasongarabedian]

Thanks for the link Jean. It does say some schools favoured less meat and some fatter meat, however are the blades which appear to have a flatter profile like that because of over polishing or were tbey forged that way centuries ago? Thats what I wanted to know mainly

 

Cheers

 

Jason G

[Jean]

No, some schools/smiths had plenty hiraniku some had less independantly of the polish.

 

Sue Muromachi blades from Sukesada Bizen school had plenty hiraniku, Bizen Kanemitsu had scarce

 

http://www.nihonto.com/abtartbizenkanemitsu.html.

 

 

See NMB topic

 

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/nmb/ ... w=previous

[jasongarabedian]

Thanks for clearing it up Jean. :D

Good read also. Lets see what others say.

 

Cheers

 

Jason G

[Marius]

Jean,

 

According to these sources, Bizen Kanemitsu later works have scarce niku, but we must look at this in connection with other parameters of these blades. A very long and very broad blade might have less niku, because otherwise it would be too heavy.

Just a thought.

 

As you said, nihonto is all about exceptions.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Food for thought. Older swords in addition to having metal removed face the issue of did the last polisher(s) place and shape the sword including the niku correctly as "originally" intended where it is supposed to be. A polish is much more than the finished look. If the foundation polish is not adjusted correctly as necessary each time the sword has been polished you could end up with a "nice" sword which is in fact way off from where it is supposed to be. The last sword I had polished needed to be completely reshaped including moving the niku down closer to the ha over the entire length of the sword, as overtime it had migrated up closer to the shinogi from where it was supposed to be. The knowledge, ability, and skill of an excellent polisher is humbling.

[cabowen]

The knowledge, ability, and skill of an excellent polisher is humbling.

 

Indeed....

[jasongarabedian]

Thank you to everyone for replying. Its been a very informative discussion.

So lastly, what do you guys think of Shinto and shinshinto blade geometry for the most part? Were they created with little hiraniku back in the day because there was no more need to battle with armour etc? Or again just result of being polished flatter during the ages? Has anyone seen a preserved Edo period blade in its original polish, or does such a thing not exist?

 

Cheers

 

Jason G

[davidtorez]

Jason,

 

I have seen two shinshinto period blades in their original polish and they both had scant hamaguriha niku.

 

Have a good one

Dave

[cabowen]

Have a read of Nagayama and Nakahara sensei's books and I think you will find the info you seek.

[CurtisR]

Just stopping by to say "Thank You" to Jean for posting the link to "The Shape of the Sword"....only a bit through it and it's excellent!

Printed and saved to disk!

 

 

Curtis R.