Nanban tsuba depicting an African Servant/Slave?

[docliss]

Dear Ford, to repeat an earlier posting:

Trade records describe crude and symmetrical guards with purely Chinese designs as arriving in Japan from China around 1600 (Wada (1913), Hompō Sōken Kinkō Ryakushin, p 90). At this time, Japan was enjoying a brief respite during several centuries of continuous civil war, and Zen Buddhism was becoming increasingly influential. The status of metalworking artists increased, and their work adopted a pictorial style of design with an increasing use of the soft metal alloys. Japan was thus highly receptive to these highly innovative designs from China.

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5513&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

John L.

[Bazza]

Ah, God, how I love you blokes. This mere mortal has found this thread to be of immense and passionate interest. I read Boxer's 19thC piece on Namban (perhaps I should say "foreign influence") tsuba 45-ish years ago and was entranced, and saw in-hand Peter Bleed's auriculate tsuba when he visited Melbourne only a few years ago. Although I have kept for a long time a very good Namban tsuba, I haven't either "what it takes" or the resources to follow this interest up with more solid research myself, so I have deeply appreciated contributions to the thread. For passionate if not always reasoned argument this thread proves to me beyond doubt the great importance of the Board. Kudos to all, especially Brian who bonds us together.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Dr John

 

thanks for that reference. To be honest it had slipped my mind but I now notice it's cited it the Nohonto Kozan Vol7 on tosogu by Ogura Souemon.

 

I note also his suggestion Chinese workers were possibly brought to work in Nagasaki.

 

And the interesting comment;

"A summary of the Nanban Tsuba is as presented above, but these were welcomed by the public, which likes novelties, and there is the impression that they suddenly overwhelmed a generation. Because of this, domestically made copies are extremely numerous, true imports are unexpectedly few, and the areas where the copies were made are mainly the manufacturing areas of Nagasaki, Hirato, Hakata, Kyōto and Aizu nado, but I think a great deal of copying was also done in other regions."

 

An evidently obvious exception would be guards 'signed' Da Ming Peng Cheng Fu. :D (possibly a place name)

 

The author also writes that he believes the popularity of Nanban tsuba was after Genroku (1688 ~ 1704) which further raises the possibility that the imports that arrived around 1600, as attested to in your reference, were the initial inspiration but didn't necessarily form the bulk of these items as we know them today. But this is, of course, just the author following the logical progression his own reasoning.

 

I'm not trying to be deliberately contentious but I find myself still unconvinced that the majority of what we designate as being Nanban were not made in Japan. I can accept that some were but there remains the issue of their accurate identification I think.

[John A Stuart]

In reference to the gumbai/ gunbai uchiwa 軍配団扇 held by the figure in the OP tsuba. This was used as a signaling device like the saihai by samurai of rank. However, I believe the gumbai uchiwa may in its most common usage have been just a fan for cooling. If we consider that as the purpose in the portrait on the tsuba it would show a subservient role of the figure and thus it could be a servant of colour. The pics in other posts show those baloon pantaloons, but, hey, I don't know much about 17/18th century dress. Some of the tsuba linked to in the other thread surely are figures of coloured people. John

[docliss]

Ford, as far as I am aware there has been no suggestion that 'the majority of Namban tsuba were not made in Japan'. Indeed, they were, particularly after the beginning of the 19th century.

 

John L.

[Ford Hallam]

I don't know John. Your own appreciation of this broad group is obviously far more nuanced than most but impression I get is that for many people the appellation nanban is almost synonymous with poor quality imported goods. Of course this isn't helped by the plethora of cast fakes floating around either.

[docliss]

Of course this isn't helped by the plethors of cast fakes floating around ....

 

Ford, I must of course agree with you that a large number of Namban tsuba are cast, especially the later Japanese examples. But 'fakes'?

 

John L.

[Ford Hallam]

I don't believe there is any evidence that the technology required to cast such complex forms as many of the Nanban type tsuba exhibit existed in Edo period Japan, or anywhere for that matter. No one has even attempted to describe how this form of manufacture might have been accomplished using the same sort of processes that tea kettle casters might have used ( simple gravity feed of the molten iron in to a hot mould) nor has anyone found any literary evidence nor archeological artefacts that might suggest this was possible. I maintain that if a steel tsuba is shown to be cast then it's a modern fake or copy.

 

Consider, if casting such relatively small and finely modelled pieces in iron or steel was possible in the Edo period why this wasn't rightly exhaulted as a technological marvel? Instead, it's use was reserved for producing lesser quality Nanban tsuba...and apparently nothing else. This simply seems a bit too far fetched for this pragmatist metalworker. In a culture where every conceivable craft process was recorded there is no mention of this remarkable ability to reproduce, one assumes from a carved wax model, steel items of such complexity without centrifugal or vacuum casting, which would be essential to force the molten iron/steel to properly fill the mould.

 

Professor William Gowland produced some incredibly detailed accounts of cast iron and bronze technologies used in Japan at the start of the Meiji period (almost a DIY guide) , if there was any suggestion that the sort of iron or steel castings we're talking about were produced back then you can be sure he's have trumpeted it to the heavens :D ...but he didn't. :? and he was probably the most thorough researcher of the period we can refer to.

 

And if I may refer to an old thread I started I would offer the following;

"Cpt. Francis Brinkley arrived in Japan in 1867 and remained there until his death in 1912.

 

This from Brinkley's "A History of the Japanese people" (1915)(vol 7, p 256) "

"It maybe well here to dismiss, once for all, a theory sometimes advanced by writers in Europe that many of the elaborate guards of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries were of cast iron.

That cast-iron guards had no existence cannot be affirmed ; they may sometimes have been made for weapons of the most inferior description. But the Japanese themselves deny that cast iron was ever regarded as a suitable material for a sword-guard, its liability to fracture being a fatal objection. The connoisseur, and every samurai was something of a connoisseur in matters concerning his sword, attached more importance to the tempering of the metal than to the fashion of the ornamental chiselling, and in every record of great armourers skill in forging iron heads the list of their achievements. ..."

 

 

For anyone unable to sleep at night here's a link to the thread i refer to where I lay out my position regarding cast steel tsuba and address various objections and speculations. I'll be sure to include it all, with more, in my books, the present volume coming along nicely

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10717&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=last+word+on+cast+steel+tsuba

[docliss]

Ford, please excuse me if I now express my confusion over the subject of cast Namban tsuba, It was you who raised the subject of a 'plethora of cast fakes'. You then produced support for the opinion that the technology for producing complex iron castings such as Namban tsuba did not exist in Edo Japan. When, then, was this 'plethora' produced if not, as I suggested, during the 19th century?

 

Please ease me in my confusion.

 

John L.

[Alan Morton]

Bazza'

are you telling me that you are " A MERE MORTAL"

Well that bursts a big BuBBle for me.

 

Alan.

[Ford Hallam]

John,

 

sorry to confuse you. Simply put, detailed casting steel items like the Nanban pieces we're discussing

would not have been technically possible until at least the latter half of the 20th century. In small scale workshops perhaps even more recently. As I've tried to explain, the technology simply didn't exist. No confusion really, if it's cast iron/steel (and who's analysed these pieces?) it's post Showa by a long shot.

 

My point about the plethora of cast fakes being to demonstrate exactly how distorted this subject is, that so many who are making deductions about manufacture are so ignorant of the practicalities of real iron or steel casting and are also unwittingly adding to the subject these irrelevant modern fakes.

 

I would add that in my own experience I've learned that many scrupulous students of tsuba have examined Nanban tsuba and interpreted various marks of their making as being proof of casting which I can't see in the same way.

To reiterate my central point;

I don't believe there is any evidence that the technology required to cast such complex forms as many of the Nanban type tsuba exhibit existed in Edo period Japan, or anywhere for that matter. No one has even attempted to describe how this form of manufacture might have been accomplished using the same sort of processes that tea kettle casters might have used ( simple gravity feed of the molten iron in to a hot mould) nor has anyone found any literary evidence nor archeological artefacts that might suggest this was possible. I maintain that if a steel tsuba is shown to be cast then it's a modern fake or copy.

[docliss]

Ford, thank you for your detailed reply to my cry for clarification. Are we then to accept that the 'plethora of cast fakes' that you describe is entirely of late 20th century production? Personally, I find this rather surprising.

 

I have read somewhere - unfortunately I do not have the reference - that better quality castings were facilitated by the use of steam; this was achieved by the application, under pressure, of wet pads to the molten casting. Your comments please.

 

Kind regards, John L.

[Ford Hallam]

Morning John

 

can't say I understand what steam might do in terms of improving a casting.

 

The issue is really one of very specific technical problems. As flexible rubber moulds were not available we have to start with a carved wax model. Jewellers waxes today are amazingly well made to allow for remarkable detail and finnesse but in the past artists had to use a far soften composition of bees wax and rosin. There are limitations as to what you could do with the stuff, baring in mind the wax model is later melted out.

 

Then we have to consider the mould itself. What refractory material could be so delicately worked into the interstices such as those we see on many Nanban tsuba? Plaster of Paris wasn't available. Bronze and tea kettle casting used a system of built up successive layers of various mixtures of clays, chopped straw and finely ground charcoal powder. And bare in mind the need to apply to the wax model a runner to allow the molten metal to be pored in, and various additional feeder runners to make sure the metal gets everywhere and sprues to allow for air and gas to escape so that there would be no trapped air pockets.

 

And then the final problem to overcome is that of actually getting the molten iron/steel to flow fully and without what are called cold shuts (basically tiny hesitations in the flow of metal that causes a imperfect fill. A bit like adding wet cement to an already dry surface, it tends to crack off eventually) . The standard approach was simply to rely on gravity to draw the metal down to fill the mould. And you can easily imagine what a maze of potential air traps a complex composition of tendrils would present.

 

With modern practices this might be overcome by the use of very controlled centrifugal casting. The moment the molten metal enters the mould it is spun thereby flinging the metal hard into the mould, or, more reliably and typically nowadays the use of a vacuum chamber around the mould. As the metal enters the mould the vacuum is released which sucks all the air out of the mould and instantly sucks the molten metal in to take it's place. Vacuum casting on a small scale for use in small workshops was only developed in the early '80's. the 1980's

There's a good explanation here;http://www.bronzecasting.co.uk/5_kiln_cast/vaccasting_10.html

 

Edward J Blackley, in the UK, produce very fine cast replacement parts for antique pistol restoration. But this sort of thing simply wasn't available anywhere until about 30 years ago.

 

Of course there may be a way that cast tsuba in steel were made back in the Edo period....

[Geraint]

Hi Ford.

 

How's it going? The steam is formed by trapping damp material hard against the open top of the investment mould. Heat from the mould vapourises the water and the pressure forces metal; into the mould. Always frightened the life out of me as some pretty serious casting accidents happen if you don't unsure that all foundry tools are totally moisture free but I suppose the moisture in this case is not in contact with the molten metal. Here's a link. http://www.mindspring.com/~alshinn/SteamCasting2.html

 

I can't find a reference to this process used for cast iron and being a cowardly woodworker by inclination I can't say that I would fancy having a go at those temperatures. You, of course, are quite happy to pour molten shibuichi into buckets of water so it might not have the same effect on you.

 

Of course none of this makes a difference to the discussion unless we can find some evidence of early use of the technique by the Japanese.

 

All the best.

[Bazza]

Something over 40 years ago I had a wakizashi with a garish irridescent green and white "candy-striped" saya. I remember it well. The mumei blade I thought in my immature daze was nothing remarkable - I'd like to see it now to be sure!! But the thing I most remember is the tsuba. It was an iron sukashi tsuba, not Namban, and it had a 'biscuit' broken out of it. A crystalline structure was clearly evident in the break and I always attributed this to the metal being cast iron, more so as there was no bending at or around the break. In light of the present discussion I regrettably cannot describe it in more detail, but the presence of a clean break and coarse crystalline structure to me clearly indicated cast iron. I have no idea how old this tsuba was, but by the highly decorative ('gauche'??) saya I would have guessed Meiji period.

 

As a person with little technical knowledge of the subject, the present discussion encouraged me wander into google to see what I could find out about the history of cast iron. There is a bit and I'll reproduce a little - here is the link:

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/pla ... oryid=ab16

and at the very bottom of the page the text states:

-----------------------------------------------------------

Cast iron in the east: 513 BC

 

Thus far in the story iron has been heated and hammered, but never melted. Its melting point (1528°C) is too high for primitive furnaces, which can reach about 1300°C and are adequate for copper (melting at 1083°C). This limitation is overcome when the Chinese develop a furnace hot enough to melt iron, enabling them to produce the world's first cast iron - an event traditionally dated in the Chinese histories to 513 BC.

 

In this they are a thousand and more years ahead of the western world. The first iron foundry in England, for example, dates only from AD 1161. By that time the Chinese have already pioneered the structural use of cast iron, using it sometimes for the pillars of full-size pagodas.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I'm not at all challenging any prior posts and I do understand the difficulties of molten iron insinuating into fine spaces. I have no purpose here other than to perhaps pose the question "If Chinese were producing cast iron in 513 BC is there any evidence of intricate casting, such as a tsuba or an intricate ritual object??". I apologise if this seems simplistic...

 

BaZZa.

[cabowen]

The tatara process that produces tamahagane also produces cast iron. It is one thing to make cast iron, quite another to cast it as Ford has illuminated....

[Ford Hallam]

Geraint, hello, thanks for that link and description.

 

Interesting technique but I can't see it having any use on a relatively small casting. Tsuba are around 200 grams, add that again for runners and the pouring sprue and we still only have 400g. With small items like this and so thin, one of the major issues is getting the mould properly filled before the metal starts to crystallise and solidify. Filling a mould as quickly as one can and then applying a damp cloth onto the casting sprue would probably be too late, I think, to have any effect. Even casting a tsuba sized plate (5mm thick) into a very hot steel mould results in the button, the big lumpy bit at the end of the pour, being solid almost as soon as the pour is finished. On a large bronze vessel it does take a little while for the metal to solidify so in that case I can see how that might work. I don't think I'll try it though. :D

 

This is a photo of a brass type alloy I cast. Note the volume of the button at top, this provides a bit of extra pressure, but also note the fine layers on the face of the plate. This is not quite the cold shuts I referred to earlier but it's that sort of wave action of the metal 'freezing' as the metal fills up a mould that is such a problem to overcome when casting relatively thin section material. This is a largish open void to fill, imagine the vortices that are caused when molten metal is sent down the sort of network of tiny tunnels a Nanban tsuba has.

Apart from issues of shrinkage, always a problem with thin plate casting, and the fineness, or lack of it, on the cast surface it would have been possible to cast simple plate like tsuba but again, for practical usage reasons, I'd be doubtful of it being in practice in the Edo period.

 

Barry, yes, the Chinese were casting iron as early as 2500 years ago. There are many examples of a variety of cast iron farming implements and even thin walled vessels. But the leap from that to casting the sort of detail and delicacy we see in Nanban tsuba is a big one, especially without any literary record, as I wrote earlier, in a country that recorded all their technological and crafts processes. If Japan was capable of cast little delicate things like this at the end of the Edo period I think they'd have been very keen to show the world how clever they were at the various trade expositions they exhibited at.

 

I think the real problem is that this notion is so entrenched that the usual approach to research has been inverted. All we have are the objects themselves. If they are cast tsuba we need then to establish a likely date of manufacture. But dates have been assigned before the issue of the technology has been studied properly and an idea of what was possible, and when, more accurately established.

 

Here's another point to consider. Castings are generally identified by the presence of casting seams, as they are erroneously called. One explanation being that these lines or bits of flash (as they are properly called) result from the incomplete fitting together of the 2 sides of a mould. How then are these mould carved to allow molten metal to form interlocking loops etc. and the once the metal is cool be separated?

 

Those seams we see are in fact evidence of the rubber mould that the wax model was created in. No seam results from an investment lost wax casting unless the seam was on the wax to begin with.

And vulcanising rubber and high pressure wax injection wasn't available until after the second world war.

[Ford Hallam]

Because this is a beautiful process AND it brings us back to Africa here's link to some great images that illustrate many of the sorts of details I've been describing. Ancient Ashanti castings are some of Africa's greatest treasures.

This technique might have been perfect for casting iron or steel if it wasn't for the fact that the temperatures needed would turn the clay moulds into stoneware. I might have to give it a shot though.

 

Here's the link.

[John A Stuart]

Was the Ashanti process a borrowed European technology or did they have it before European contact? It seems a standard cire perdue technique. John

[Ford Hallam]

John

 

The lost wax process is around 6000years old and was employed in ancient Egypt also. As far as the Ashanti are concerned they appear to have been natural inheritors of a technology that developed in Africa, the Middle East and then India. It seems that it spread in to Europe via Greece and Rome somewhat later. None of the original developers of the process spoke French though, (French not having been invented back then) nor had flags. (Eddie Izzard colonialism reference) :lol:

[John A Stuart]

Hahahah! Pardonnez mois mon francais!! it sounded so erudite. Of all the world histories my African sub-Saharan is the weakest, sorry Brian, except for the Pacific islands perhaps. Yes, northern Africa was metallurgically proficient from the dawn of times and the technology logically diffused south and east and with the abilities of these sub-Saharan people carving elaborate masks and statues it would be a natural evolution. I was curious because the Ashanti nation is so juvenile starting well after European contact. Of course, their forebears could have had it by the diffusion pathway. I was reading the comments on steel casting or even iron casting. Soft metals are so forgiving and flaws easily repaired, and data by its absence precludes steel casting, but, what about hot casting iron (not steel or if it was, low carbon steel) into hot molds. On small pieces you don't get rapid crystallisation. Not likely for the pierced guards, which would then have to susequently sawn and carved. Possibly?? Again conjecture on my part. John

[docliss]

Ford, Geraint, Bazza and John; many thanks for your interesting contributions to this thread. They are much appreciated. John L.