Nanban tsuba depicting an African Servant/Slave?

[DGARBUTT]

Attached is an interesting tsuba that seems to depict a servant/slave in Portuguese costume. To me the servant/slave appears to be an African based on the facial features. The tsuba was apparently made for presentation and not use. What do you think?

[Soshin]

Hi Dale G.,

 

I remember seeing this tsuba in person. It is very impressive Nanban tsuba. I am sure there were namban style presentation tsuba made. This one is of a very interesting design. I was thinking the Spanish and Portuguese might have been using Filipino servant/slaves in place of Africans in the far east but I am not sure. The Africans might have been used mostly in the new world. Looking at some Azuchi-Momoyama Period or Edo Period art of foreigners might be helpful for comparison purposes.

[John A Stuart]

The base metal is dark, so I discount that as refering to the skin colour. Spanish/Portuguese dress, yes. Why not just an Iborian gentleman? The facial features seem congruent with those found on many figural representations of the type, to me. Then again the hat, helmet could conceivably be Korean, and they as well had dress similar. The gumbai is a mark of rank as well.

John

[Kevin Adams]

It is very impressive Nanban tsuba. I am sure there were namban style presentation tsuba made. This one is of a very interesting design.

Out of curiosity, what do you find impressive about this piece? I personally find the execution of it to be a bit crude - the horizontal markings on the ura seppa-dai are a bit strange, the gilding (if it is indeed gilded) seems so thick as to lack refinement, and rendering of the figure is very stiff. I agree with John's assessment of the facial features and coloration.

 

I was thinking the Spanish and Portuguese might have been using Filipino servant/slaves in place of Africans in the far east but I am not sure. The Africans might have been used mostly in the new world. Looking at some Azuchi-Momoyama Period or Edo Period art of foreigners might be helpful for comparison purposes.

A quick Google search suggests that black African slaves were used as crew members on Portuguese ships trading with Japan, but I wonder if a labourer on a ship would be worthy of depiction on a tsuba. Given Japan's attitude towards the Portuguese "buying" Japanese into slavery for export to Europe, I'm not sure it would be something that would be promoted in their art, especially attempted in a formal, stylized fashion as on this piece.

 

It would certainly be worth a bit of research, but I don't think this piece falls into the category in question.

[BIG]

Hi Dale,

 

Looks like an original portuguese.

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17513/lot/3132/

 

another One...

 

Best Regards

[DGARBUTT]

For those inter3sted in seeing other depictions of "Africans" in Nanban/Japanese art see the following link: http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2013/04/ ... nters.html

[Brian]

Imho, it is just the usual depiction of a Portuguese trader.

 

Brian

[Kevin Adams]

I enjoyed that blog posting Dale, thank you for sharing it!

[Tanto54]

Here's a screen from the 1600's. Blacks were often depicted in other forms of Japanese art because they were an unusual curiosity in Japan at the time. (Sorry if the write up is hard to read).

[Soshin]

It is very impressive Nanban tsuba. I am sure there were namban style presentation tsuba made. This one is of a very interesting design.

Out of curiosity, what do you find impressive about this piece? I personally find the execution of it to be a bit crude - the horizontal markings on the ura seppa-dai are a bit strange, the gilding (if it is indeed gilded) seems so thick as to lack refinement, and rendering of the figure is very stiff. I agree with John's assessment of the facial features and coloration.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

Please read my quote more carefully I was referring to the design. I have never seen one like it before. But from looking at others replies the design had been used before on Nanban tsuba.

[Kevin Adams]

I was referring to the design.

Exactly. WHAT do you find impressive about it? You can't make a patronizing statement like "read my quote more carefully" then not answer the question posed to you. Nobody learns anything that way. The example Peter posted shows more technical virtuosity and is compositionally more interesting than the posted example. While I wouldn't call the Bonhams piece "impressive", I'd say it's far superior.

 

In the interests of staying on topic, the different metals used for the faces on the Bonhams example (which we've all seen artists do before on tsuba depicting multiple Japanese figures) suggests that the artist was not showing specifically African slaves on the work. No reason to think any differently for the posted example.

 

One thing I did find interesting about the paintings that were generously posted is the difference in dress between the traders and the servants/slaves - no headwear on the slaves. Some research is needed to distinguish 15-16th century Portuguese merchant wear versus servant wear, but based on the depictions in the paintings, it's a bit more evidence pointing towards the figures on these tsuba being merchants and not African slaves.

[Soshin]

Hi Kevin Adams,

 

While some design elements are similar the technique and style of the two tsuba are very different making comparisons difficult and your judgement subjective. I like both tsuba and I learned that the design motif isn't that rare on Namban tsuba. I really don't get your point with the personal attack which I responded to in kind and should have ignored. If I did something to offend your honor please send me a PM and let's work it out outside of the topic.

[Kevin Adams]

While some design elements are similar the technique and style of the two tsuba are very different making comparisons difficult and your judgement subjective. I like both tsuba and I learned that the design motif isn't that rare on Namban tsuba.

David, this still doesn't answer my original question - why do you think the tsuba posted initially is "impressive"? Is it the technique, the theme, how it papered (if at all), the overall "feel" of the piece (since you have examined it in person)? It must be SOMETHING, why won't you share your first-hand knowledge of it?

 

Is it because I disagreed with your assessment, and attempted to formulate a logical argument based on my own experience to back it up?

 

You say I leveled a personal attack on you - this a serious claim, when exactly did I do this? Are wanting an answer to a question, or pointing out that said question wasn't answered considered "attacks"? I assure you, there is nothing personal happening here - just the desire to learn from someone who seems to know a bit more than me, in an environment that promotes such learning.

 

And finally - it's a little unfair of you claim that MY opinion is subjective, but not put yours out for discussion. Even if some don't like the piece, the original question/topic/tsuba is one worthy of research and discussion, and there's been some great information posted that we can all peruse and learn something from. If you've since learned that the motif isn't that rare on Namban tsuba, PLEASE - share your finding and contribute to the pool of information. I for one would love to see more paintings, tsuba and general historical links that relate to this topic, since it's quite unusual and obviously a niche topic in Japanese history that made its way into the art of the period.

[Lance]

One thing I did find interesting about the paintings that were generously posted is the difference in dress between the traders and the servants/slaves - no headwear on the slaves. Some research is needed to distinguish 15-16th century Portuguese merchant wear versus servant wear, but based on the depictions in the paintings, it's a bit more evidence pointing towards the figures on these tsuba being merchants and not African slaves.

 

I noticed this too, and would say this could point to a trader rather than slave........... A slight(?) possibility for it depicting an African: My impression is the Japanese sometimes depicted the "Southern Barbarians" with a sort of amused disdain, or a curiosity, especially in sword fittings.

In the images provided above, the Africans are shown carrying umbrellas, providing shade for their masters. On the original tsuba the person's carrying a gumbai (war fan) a symbol of rank, something that the Portuguese traders probably didn't/couldn't carry as a badge of authority? maybe a joke, as Japanese culture (in general) probably looked down on both master and slave equally? maybe reaching a bit.

 

I don't know if I'm going to be able to convey this properly, but I'd like to chime in and say I think there are some aspects better than what is normally seen on average Namban tsuba, the quality/thickness of the gold seems better than the thin numome usually seen. , the iron seems to be better quality than either the featureless plate with flat inlay usually attributed as Hizen or the intricately carved plates that sometimes seem to be cast (obviously some are but I think some get mislabeled as cast due to their condition making them seems porous)

The carving, even though naive, doesn't seem crude but purposely softened, similar to Higo Jingo carving, and the inlay over and around the seppa dai, looks like the type of work they did too, except a little thicker.

Couple images below to show the type of silver numome I'm referring to compare, some of the pics came from member's sites, hope they don't mind:

 

Regards,

Lance

 

 

PS don't consider myself anywhere near an expert but I do seem to have been cursed (blessed?) with encountering an unfairly large percentage of pretty good swords over the years with Namban tsuba,

[John A Stuart]

What is telling to me is the breeks worn. Not those pantaloons a la MC Hammer, but, straightlegged. I just know I've seen this dress somewhere bfore, China, Korea?? The hat like a Mandarin's, the clothing like some haniwa. ?? John

[Akitombo]

This has been, yet again, a very interesting thread.

I feel sure that we need Dr John Lissenden to add his thoughts on the subject regarding this tsuba.

One thought I did have was regarding it's manufacture, as we know, some Namban tsuba were produced outside of Japan.

Could this be an example?

The maker using a theme that they knew?

Just a thought.

 

Regards

 

David.N

[Ford Hallam]

One thought I did have was regarding it's manufacture, as we know, some Namban tsuba were produced outside of Japan

 

I don't think we can safely say this at all.

 

It has been speculated that this may be the case but as yet no definitive proof in the form of period documents has come to light. Given that there does exist a reasonable body of such documents but that there hasn't been any record uncovered that points to tsuba having been imported I think we ought to be cautious in positing this speculation as fact.

 

Frankly, I don't think the Shogunate would have allowed tsuba to be imported. The country was awash with tsuba-makers perfectly capable of meeting Japanese demands so why 'bring coal to New Castle'? and thereby add a debit to the trade balance sheet. We know that foreign steel was imported, and this makes economic sense, but it wasn't worked into a finished product. That was left to local artisans.

 

VOC company records are pretty detailed and there are records of trade in a type of shakudo and gilt ware known as Suwasa dating from the 17th cent. These were exported from Japan. A cursory study of these objects suggests that in all likelihood so called Namban tsuba were made by the same artisans. The areas of manufacture were around Deshima, in what is today Nagasaki.

‘Sawasa - Japanese export art in black and gold. 1650 - 1800’ Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam, 1998.

[Soshin]

Hi Kevin,

 

Maybe "personal attack" was a bit too strong of wording on my part. Sorry about it lets just drop it and move on to discuss the topic with mutual respect.

 

Hi Lance,

 

You did a good of summarizing my obervations about the first tsuba. Dale's photos are a bit over exposed and the color balance is poor so it isn't clear but the quaility of the gold and silver inlay is very good and condition is remarkable for its age.

 

Hi Ford,

 

The Chinese and to a less degree the Japanese had trade records during the Muromachi Period. I agree with you in terms of the subject of imported Nanban tsuba into Japan. This statement doesn't apply to the Nanban tsuba that started out as a Dutch coin or watchcase that were imported into Japan and turned into a tsuba.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi David

 

I think it goes without saying that everyone in the Muromachi period and onwards kept detailed trade records the point is whether anything relevant to tsuba importation is still extant. The VOC records are remarkably well preserved in the Hague , Cape Town and Jakarta (Batavia) and elsewhere. These records comprise over 25 million pages But my point is, VOC trade with Japan, from Batavia is still remarkably well documented and if the VOC archives in Cape Town are anything to go by we're talking about the minutiae of day to day business.

 

Batavia in the Edo period was a very wealthy and cosmopolitan Colonial enclave and it is primarily their that the luxury goods called Sawasa were exported. Some later made their way to Europe. It seem logical therefore, to me anyway, that along with the skakudo/gilt sawasa wares similar swords accoutrements were made in iron to test out the local market. These evidently caught on, and not necessarily just among the Samurai class, as exotic and therefore fashionable.

 

But I'd recommend the book I cited earlier to anyone wanting to get a more in depth grasp of what foreign trade trade out of Nagasaki was like in the early to mid Edo period and to examine the pieces for themselves to see how they compare with our notions of namban tsuba.

[docliss]

While acknowledging that Dale's tsuba, featuring a Portuguese trader, with its decorative seppa-dai, its karakusa motif and its decorative mimi, demonstrates a namban influence it does, in my opinion, lack the defining characteristics of the Namban group. Its crude and unskilled character, with its clumsy gilding, also make it quite unsuitable as a presentation piece although, with its elaborate seppa-dai, virginal and unnecessarily large nakago-hitsu and the inappropriate placing of the kozuka-hitsu, it was probably never intended for mounting. This tsuba was probably a shiiremono, made in the Nagasaki docks in the late 19th century solely for export.

 

I am labelling the figure a Portuguese trader since I do not believe that the exposed base metal on the face, hands and feet, nor the unskilled facial features, are indications of an African nationality. The significance of the gumbai as an badge of rank on such a figure I do not understand; perhaps John can help.

 

While I agree with Ford's reticence over the importation of tsuba into Japan, I believe there to be two examples where this may have occurred. 'Those tsuba that are today called Namban appear to have been produced in China or by the Dutch East India Company in India and imported from the end of thee 16th century.' (Ogawa (1987), Japanese Swords and Sword Furniture in the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, no 353, pp 353 and 353). Additionally, those Namban tsuba labelled as belonging to the Auriculate sub-group, and bearing the VOC logo of the Dutch East India Company, may well have been manufactured outside Japan and imported during the Momoyama period. (Syz (1994), Masterpieces from the Randolph B. Caldwell Collection, no 34, pp 50 and 51).

 

To what extent such imports were commercial or were the result of purchase by individual, travelling Japanese is clearly unknown.

 

John L.

[Soshin]

Hi Ford,

 

You didn't pick up on the fact that the Muromachi Period the Shogun was in the eyes of Chinese Empire the trade repersentative for Japan. All things officially traded between China and Japan were recorded. This was discussed recently in Markus S. blog dealing primarily with swords exported by Japan. Researching the same Chinese and Japanese documents for tsuba references would be interesting. Here is a link blog: http://markussesko.wordpress.com. During Azuchi-Momoyama Period trade had mostly shifted to European powers.

[Ford Hallam]

Dr John L

 

of course we must agree to disagree but as I have already mentioned this hypothesis is as yet without any substantiation. I am well aware of both of the references you cite but am unswayed by authority lacking evidence.

 

Just because Morihiro Ogawa Sensei and Mr John Harding ( the Syz catalogue) made these claims does not make them fact, especially as neither of them cared to provide any substantiation. At least Mr Harding contented himself with merely suggesting the possibility. I'd suggest that Ogawa's suggestion of an Indian origin is completely fanciful as is the dating of possible VOC importation.

 

Perhaps Brian might now add how we don't simply accept answers without evidence anymore because we don't kowtow to exalted Sensei....at least that's what I was quite clearly told recently.

The Japanese way might be "listen to the Master and don't question anything" but that isn't how we work. We listen to ideas and explanations, and then ask more questions, and then make up our minds

 

As I maintain, this idea is as yet without substantiation and rather muddies the water in terms of getting to the truth.

 

David,

 

no, I didn't miss anything...and now I have no idea what you are getting at, Sorry, unless you're suggesting 'Namban tsuba' might have been imported in the Muromachi Period, which would require some serious evidence methinks Hypothetical speculations are really not very helpful in trying to establish what we can rely on as reasonable 'fact'.

[John A Stuart]

You know that Guangzhou has been touted as the possible origin of the VOC namban tsuba. We should remember that the VOC did not arrrive in Canton until 1729, with Ostend slightly earlier, 1717. The Portuguese much earlier, but, it wasn't until 1683 that the Qing really allowed trade in Canton with them and the 90's before it took off. I would be very careful in assuming the namban tsuba due to Canton trade as beig Azuchi-Momoyama period. I find the tsuba seen and/or obtained in Korea of the Chinese pierced stylisation a more likely source. John

[Ford Hallam]

the tsuba seen and/or obtained in Korea of the Chinese pierced stylisation

 

John, again the obvious question; is there any evidence for the notion that tsuba were seen or obtained from Korea? in whatever style.

 

And we should remember that to date (pun intended :D ) we have no way of really establishing exact dates of manufacture of these Namban tsuba so perhaps we need first to establish where they were made before we guess when they were made. Any theories we build or posit must be based on at least some sort of verifiable evidence and not just complete conjecture.

[Soshin]

David,

 

no, I didn't miss anything...and now I have no idea what you are getting at, Sorry, unless you're suggesting 'Namban tsuba' might have been imported in the Muromachi Period, which would require some serious evidence methinks Hypothetical speculations are really not very helpful in trying to establish what we can rely on as reasonable 'fact'.

 

Hi Ford,

 

Again your are misinterpreting my statements. I was not stating a fact but a hypothetical possibility that might be interesting research for a scholar who can read ancient Chinese and Japanese. I am on much better terms with Markus S. so I might ask him if someone has already done this or if it can even be done.

 

Everyone this topic is growing old very fast for me and I am not going to waste any more time on it. Goodbye.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Ford, Your question; "...is there any evidence for the notion that tsuba were seen or obtained from Korea? in whatever style." Yes, just my eyes, seeing collections of Chinese weapons of the period and books of course. Somewhere before I posted pictures of Chinese guards that show the relevance. Of course, I wasn't at the Korean campaigns so can't say Joe Blow brought some over. Thousands were there and taking trophies and booty common. How can I prove an historical likelihood? John

[Guido]

Looks like we came full circle: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5513&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

As an added bonus, that thread has some interesting contributions by "the mean guy" without any meanness.

[Ford Hallam]

Well I certainly hope my comments weren't seen as unnecessarily mean I merely intended to caution against stating as fact things that are not supported by evidence. I fear that what we see all too often in this field is exactly such theories being made and then subsequently being repeated, unthinkingly or unknowingly, as established fact on which to build further thesis'. And while it's fine to speculate what is happening all too often is that any chance of actually getting to what we really can say we know is obscured by loads of pet theories that have to, rather tediously, be dismantled first. This is not the way to build a reliable history I think.

 

Anyway...back to the tsuba that started this thread. I think it perfectly reasonable to conjecture that the figure might represent an African.

 

This is a 16c. Kano school painting depicting Portuguese traders at Nagasaki.

 

Of possible interest is the similarity of the sword hilt in the painting and this typical example (one of many) illustrated in the Rijks Museum book (which I cited earlier) and which are thoroughly documented as being made in Nagasaki specifically for foreign trade and traders. This example is thought to date from the 18th century, some significant time after the painting.

[Guido]

Well I certainly hope my comments weren't seen as unnecessarily mean I merely intended to caution against stating as fact things that are not supported by evidence.

I guess you missed that thread at the izakaya about "the mean guy", a.k.a. Reinhard, who posted in the thread I linked to.

I fear that what we see all too often in this field is exactly such theories being made and then subsequently being repeated' date=' unthinkingly or unknowingly, as established fact on which to build further thesis'. And while it's fine to speculate what is happening all too often is that any chance of actually getting to what we really can say we know is obscured by loads of pet theories that have to, rather tediously, be dismantled first. This is not the way to build a reliable history I think. [/quote']I couldn't agree more. Although it's rather mean of you to constantly burst bubbles.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Guido

 

no, I got the oblique reference to Reinhard :lol: I was teasing and perhaps just a little envious of his reputation

 

and popping bubbles is such fun