Cast tsuba

[kissakai]

Hi

I added a tsuba previously and originally it was thought to be cast

I have this example that is obviously cast

I thought newbees can see how deceptive a tsuba can be when viewed in one direction

It is a good pointer to view in all the holes as this can tell you a lot

I would be interested if there are any pointers that a tsuba is cast just by looking at the face

A friend at once which was cast and the uncast one without looking at inside faces!

The first image is an Namban tsuba that is not cast

The second and third images are the same cast tsuba

 

 

 

 

 

Grev UK

[bone]

Wow Grey. Great info. I looked at the pics before reading the post. I thought the second picture was the real thing until I saw the third one.

[Brian]

Grev.

Grey is someone else.

 

Brian

[bone]

Sorry Brian. I'll take my meds now. No idea why I thought this came from grey.

[Jean]

Yes Steve, time for you to take your pills/medecine (i just remember my wife told me to do it )

[Soshin]

Hi Grev,

 

I once had a Yagyu tsuba that was fire damaged and the inner surfaces of the openwork had a thick layer of fire scale unlike the surface and rim which was cleaned of fire scale by someone after the fact. This made the tsuba look case when viewed straight on very similar to your first tsuba. Thanks for sharing these photos.

[sanjuro]

As purely an academically interested outsider to the world of namban, what indicates that the first tsuba is not cast? It certainly appears to be a casting.

 

Not stirring..... just asking.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Grev,

 

Thank you very much for starting this interesting thread.

 

I too am largely ignorant of Namban tsuba (sorry, what I meant to say was that I'm largely ignorant) but like the previous poster had thought that the first picture was of a cast tsuba. The indicators for me were the area around 6 o'clock where it appears that there is the remainder of some metal in the open-work left by casting and the carving in general and particularly on the seppa-dai seems imprecise (blurred?) when compared to the second picture.

 

I probably have this wrong, but I'd be interested in your comments.

 

With kind regards,

[kissakai]

Hi

The first may be cast

It was just that my friend spotted the second image as cast straight away but was happy the first was OK

There is no apparent die line on the first image but what do I know

 

 

Grev UK

[sanjuro]

The reason I asked is because in the first image there does appear to be a cast line in the hitsu ana and also casting flash on the motif at the six oclock point. The whole appears to be a porous looking metal and the design details are indistinct and gritty looking.

 

The original post claimed it to be an example that was not cast, and I thought it had been perhaps papered as hand wrought. This would make it most unusual.

I may also be wrong but most if not all of the so called namban tsubas one sees, are in fact cast. Some very poorly so.

[MauroP]

  sanjuro said:

....

I may also be wrong but most if not all of the so called namban tsubas one sees, are in fact cast. Some very poorly so.

Hi everybody,

I'd really be surprised if these Namban tsuba (see below) would eventually prove to be casted. Anyway chapeau if any artisan is able to cast this quality of items just with a charcoal furnace!

Bye, Mauro

[Soshin]

  sanjuro said:

I may also be wrong but most if not all of the so called namban tsubas one sees, are in fact cast. Some very poorly so.

 

Hi Keith G.,

 

I don't think this is completely true. While there are many cast reproductions and later works of namban tsuba the original ones circa Azuchi-Momoyama to early Edo Period the designs are not cast but carved. Here is an example of one on my website. The NBTHK paper even says the design is carved in a three dimensional method (nikubori ji-sukashi 肉彫地透).

 

http://www.tsubaotaku.com/#!Nanban-Sukashi-Tsuba-/zoom/c5om/image2px

[sanjuro]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying there are no hand wrought namban tsuba, merely that most examples we see on the market today are in fact cast. I may have said it poorly and given the impression that I thought all namban tsuba were cast. For that I apologise. The ones to which I referred, by your own definition would be the cast reproductions you mention, the originals being the Azuchi Momoyama hand wrought ones which would most definitely be in the minority.

Judging by the examples subsequently posted by Mauro and David, I would guess even as a beginner that by comparison the examples posted first in this thread are not hand wrought at all.

[Soshin]

Hi Keith G.,

 

I would agree both examples provided by Grev UK are late cast pieces. Just wanted to point out that they are not representative of antique naban tsuba that has some age to them. Mauro also helped with his fine set of examples.