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Choice between these two Choji oil

Widowmaker

By Widowmaker
in Nihonto

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Widowmaker Enthusiast

Widowmaker

Posted
Posted

Hello everyone, first I must declare that I am not affiliated to these two business. It is not my concern here.

 

I am choosing a good quality Choji oil right now since my Kanehide will be shipped tomorrow. I may have to clean the very old oil on the blade and re oil it. Just want to know if someone has already used this siteweb Choji oil. What makes it so special beside the very cool package? Is its quality really good as it mentionned?

https://www.facebook.com/TomboChoji?fref=nf

 

Also I find this siteweb too which offers good quality product juding from the photos. http://nihontofittings.com/index.php/Ch ... ducts.html

 

I did the research on this forum and also asked Chris concerning the maintenance question. It seems that

 

1. microfiber soaked in pure alcohol is best way to remove old oil without dammaging the blade.

 

2. Wax renaissance can be a good layer of protection before oiling.

 

3. Good quality uchiko can be occasionally used.

 

4. Never overuse any product and Oil the entire blade including nakago.

 

If I miss some important point, please add it. That will be really helpful.

 

Thank you very much!!

Darcy Mentor

Darcy

Posted
Posted

Between your two oil products, I am not familiar with them so I can't help.

 

About the rest:

 

1. You don't have to soak the microfiber in alcohol. It is better to not do this. The microfiber cloth on its own will wick the oil off very well. Ideally you always want to do the minimum necessary to a sword in order to maintain it. So for instance one could dunk it in a vat of mineral spirits, but this is not necessary. A simple wipe with a microfiber cloth is the least damaging and easiest thing to do, so stick with this.

 

2. Wax renaissance... I'm not familiar with this but I think it is not necessary. All you need is a good quality choji oil and careful application.

 

3. Uchiko... as long as you are oiling and cleaning the blade on a regular basis there is no need to use uchiko. Uchiko will eventually end up in your shirasaya if you are not perfect and will scratch your sword. A lot of swords have these scratches. A lot of swords have marks from the uchiko puff, in fact I find the majority of them have these. Most people do not see them, nor do I, but when photographing swords they come up. They are spaced regularly and I have seen Tokubetsu Juyo swords in top polish by someone like Fujishiro, only a couple of years out, with radiant patterns of scratches from the uchiko puff. The better quality you use, the less likely it is that this will happen, but essentially I don't see there is any reason to apply an abrasive to your sword. The polisher did his best job, applying uchiko and rubbing a sword alters his work. Some people prefer this and want their sword to have a very toned down look which is achieved over the long haul, but this is not my own preference. I just see too much damage all the time on swords that eventually someone will decide to polish a sword to repair. Then the next owner uses uchiko and the cycle begins again.

 

4. If you oil the nakago, you should use a fingertip. Touch some oil to your fingertip then gently rub it on. Don't use a cloth and especially not the same cloth or pad that you use to apply oil to the rest of the sword. It is not normally necessary to oil the nakago but I think it is a good idea.

John A Stuart

John A Stuart

Posted
Posted

I use Ren wax on my small swords and rapiers, but, not on Nihonto. The western swords are not polished and I use it to conserve them. My sabres get a regular mineral oil. I don't trust Ren wax on highly polished blades or tousogu, nor ibota on the tousogu. That is my preference. John

cabowen Grand Master

cabowen

Posted
Posted
Hello everyone, first I must declare that I am not affiliated to these two business. It is not my concern here.

 

I am choosing a good quality Choji oil right now since my Kanehide will be shipped tomorrow. I may have to clean the very old oil on the blade and re oil it. Just want to know if someone has already used this siteweb Choji oil. What makes it so special beside the very cool package? Is its quality really good as it mentionned?

https://www.facebook.com/TomboChoji?fref=nf

 

 

Choji oil sold for swords has been analyzed and found to be almost all mineral oil with a slight amount of oil of cloves added for scent. You can certainly use it but you know what you are buying. An alternative is to use tsubaki oil, which is camellia oil. This has traditionally been used for swords and other steel tools too and is very nice. Some shops which sell traditional Japanese woodworking tools carry it.

 

 

 

1. microfiber soaked in pure alcohol is best way to remove old oil without dammaging the blade.

 

2. Wax renaissance can be a good layer of protection before oiling.

 

3. Good quality uchiko can be occasionally used.

 

4. Never overuse any product and Oil the entire blade including nakago. [/b]

 

If there is a congealed coating of old oil, you can clean it off with clean cotton/flannel patches and acetone or isopropyl alcohol. Then wipe any residue off with the microfiber.

 

Wax is a bad idea. It will be hard to remove, hold dust and dirt, etc. You can't oil after waxing as the wax will prevent the oil from reaching the steel. Please, forget the wax.

 

Skip the uchiko too as it will inevitably lead to scratching.

 

A very light coat of fine oil- choji, tsubaki, or even a very high quality firearm oil (Rem Oil for example) will be all you need. Oil as necessary, depending on your climate and whether or not you use the blade.

Widowmaker Enthusiast

Widowmaker

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

Choji oil sold for swords has been analyzed and found to be almost all mineral oil with a slight amount of oil of cloves added for scent. You can certainly use it but you know what you are buying. An alternative is to use tsubaki oil, which is camellia oil. This has traditionally been used for swords and other steel tools too and is very nice. Some shops which sell traditional Japanese woodworking tools carry it.

 

 

If there is a congealed coating of old oil, you can clean it off with clean cotton/flannel patches and acetone or isopropyl alcohol. Then wipe any residue off with the microfiber.

 

Wax is a bad idea. It will be hard to remove, hold dust and dirt, etc. You can't oil after waxing as the wax will prevent the oil from reaching the steel. Please, forget the wax.

 

Skip the uchiko too as it will inevitably lead to scratching.

 

A very light coat of fine oil- choji, tsubaki, or even a very high quality firearm oil (Rem Oil for example) will be all you need. Oil as necessary, depending on your climate and whether or not you use the blade.

 

Thank you Chris. I will definitely check out the Camellia Oil and Rem Oil. Thank you for your information Chris!!

cabowen Grand Master

cabowen

Posted
Posted

 

Thank you Chris. I will definitely check out the Camellia Oil and Rem Oil. Thank you for your information Chris!!

 

If you get camellia oil, make sure it is the type meant for tools, not for cooking, etc.

 

Also, I have been using something called Break Free Collector which is a "long term storage protector" that was developed for the military and has been tested to keep metal rust free for 5 years. So far so good. It might be something else you might want to consider.

 

http://www.break-free.com/products/products_collectorliquid.asp?catalog=law

w.y.chan Proficient

w.y.chan

Posted
Posted

Any substance that can prevent rust, protect polish, can easily be removed and don't harm the saya must be worth consideration. For years I've been told high quality gun oil works better than Japanese sword oil. Now Chris has been a guinea pig for us I would be taking a look at this "Break Free" stuff.

 

 

Wah

Derek Rising Star

Derek

Posted
Posted

I find it interesting that anyone would maintain their nihonto with a substance labeled in a language they can't read, sold by a dealer they don't know....

Microfiber cloth and Breakfree Collector for me. Less than $10 for a 4 ounce bottle.

Brian

Brian

Posted
Posted

It's not necessary. Just use any of the oils recommended above. Show me a sword that has rusted while oiled with camelia or decent choji oil. No need to run around looking for Break Free.

 

Brian

w.y.chan Proficient

w.y.chan

Posted
Posted
It's not necessary. Just use any of the oils recommended above. Show me a sword that has rusted while oiled with camelia or decent choji oil. No need to run around looking for Break Free.

 

Brian

 

I had several swords in old polish in army mount I treated with "choji" oil the popular ones sold by sword dealers, left for 6 months and came to inspect it and it manage to attract some rust. I change the oil to the mineral ones sold by Fujishiro and those same sword never had any rust even after 2 years. Also depend on climate. In the UK there is many rainy days.

 

Wah

w.y.chan Proficient

w.y.chan

Posted
Posted

Since the subject of "Break Free" being a anti rust substance, what are the implication with using this and the nakago on newly made shinsakuto? Theoretically the tang could remain rust free like the day it was made in 100yrs time?

Very occassionally we see WW2 swords that has rust free mint condition nakago because it was a well looked after piece and nobody see it as a problem. I have a shinsakuto by a prize winning smith that has the nakago protected by a coat of varnish like sealant presumably the smith thinks it is fine for his swords to have perfect rust free nakago forever.

 

 

Wah

cabowen Grand Master

cabowen

Posted
Posted

I have had swords treated with both choji and camellia oil rust. The appeal to me of the Break Free Collector product is that it was specifically designed to prevent corrosion for extended periods, has been tested, and has been proven by testing to do exactly what it was designed for.

  • Like 1
seattle1 Experienced

seattle1

Posted
Posted

Hello:

Putting aside when it ought to be used and what is in it (the chemical composition is very much like transmission fluid), a problem that often besets users of "choji oil" is running of the oil with consequent imperfect coverage and perhaps a well soaked saya. It is a good idea to get a small cloth or strip of real flannel, very well laundered, and use it to put on a light coating of oil. If the blade is clean in the first place, you will probably notice less beading and running.

Arnold F.

Chonmage Apprentice

Chonmage

Posted
Posted

I'm not surprised to hear that a lot of choji oil might not be the real thing.

 

Something interesting to mention, is that I got a "cleaning set" from the 60s from a friend of my wife, with the more yellow camellia oil as a part of it.

I think it is more for cleaning that preserving, but any input on that would be most appreciated. So far I have been going without camellia oil.

 

After reading a few posts here I have realized I know unfortunately little about choji oil and I will need to research a lot more on whats what.

 

I have had no problems with the standard choji oil that is sold on the web. Tested a few. I oil rather frequently due to the Fukuoka weather.

I don't think I would dare to leave a blade alone for 6 months though. For that purpose perhaps that break-free mentioned before might be it.

 

Would anyone be willing to ship it to Japan? I got paypal ready :)

Lee Bray Mentor

Lee Bray

Posted
Posted

I've seen break-free oil in Tsuruta-san's shop(Aoi Art, Tokyo), Chonmage.

Don't think he sells it but maybe worth asking him where he got it from as there could be a local source.

If he ships it in from the states, my apologies.

w.y.chan Proficient

w.y.chan

Posted
Posted
I've seen break-free oil in Tsuruta-san's shop(Aoi Art, Tokyo), Chonmage.

Don't think he sells it but maybe worth asking him where he got it from as there could be a local source.

If he ships it in from the states, my apologies.

 

So that what he uses. I remember him telling me 8 years ago he uses this high quality gun oil instead of choji oil because the latter attract oxidation which lead to rust.

Break Free CLP has been around for a while but the "Collector" version which is suppose to be better is more recent probably first introduced around 2007. Luckily there is a UK stockist were I got mine a few days ago.

 

BTW Amazon UK is selling for £89 + £4.48 delivery. Can see prices going up!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BreakFree-Break-Free-CO-4-10-Collector/dp/B00M2URRWU

 

Wah

Alex A Grand Master

Alex A

Posted
Posted

Looks like really good stuff, but £89!. Ive used Singer light machine oil sparingly for the last two years (4.50 Ebay), no probs, although it is thinner than the last gun oil i used.

  • 5 months later...
Ignis Apprentice

Ignis

Posted
Posted

So that what he uses. I remember him telling me 8 years ago he uses this high quality gun oil instead of choji oil because the latter attract oxidation which lead to rust.

Break Free CLP has been around for a while but the "Collector" version which is suppose to be better is more recent probably first introduced around 2007. Luckily there is a UK stockist were I got mine a few days ago.

 

BTW Amazon UK is selling for £89 + £4.48 delivery. Can see prices going up!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BreakFree-Break-Free-CO-4-10-Collector/dp/B00M2URRWU

 

Wah

Certainly that must be for 10 bottles of 4 Fl.Oz. otherwise it'd seem a bit unrealistic

 

EDIT:

http://www.katana-samurai-sword.com/uk/break-free-collector-oil-p-744.html

 

this is a dutch site wich is also selling it for 11.95€ depending on shipping costs and location might be cheaper for the european people looking for this.

 

Nvm, just check their shipping options only one available and it another 19.50€ shipping costs so not very worthed ;)

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