Translation Assistance Please

[Donjohn]

I just picked up my first Shin Gunto and have not had any luck translating the mei. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Veli]

濃州関住兼弘作之

 

Find out the rest by yourself :D

 

BR, Veli

[Ask]

Hi Donjohn,I'm sorry I can't help much now but I'm sure you will have some luck later.

I just felt compelled to post to this after seeing the reply above mine.

I'm sure this will come back to bite me later but I see this kind of reply on here all the time and they are of no help at all.

I'm sure the smiley is to soften it up but posting a load of kanji and saying do the rest yourself does not help anyone.

Come on boys lighten up spread your knowledge,it's nothing if it's not shared and this in turn leads to others improving.

 

Ok maybe noushyuu (Gifu) seki jyuu kanehiro saku no- 濃州関住兼弘作之.

[ROKUJURO]

....I see this kind of reply on here all the time and they are of no help at all.......

John, what do you think how learning works? What do you think how the members here got to their knowledge?

 

I see that Veli tried to make the first step easy. As we have all MEI KANJI in the archive section and many of the SEKI GUNTO start their MEI the same way, it should not be too difficult to find out the smith.

 

You don't learn walking when you are carried all the time.

[Tokaido]

Hi Donjohn,

now Veli has allready done the difficult part: transscription of the sloppy *handwriting* of the smith into the *type writer shape* of the kanji.

 

Now please try the link *kanji pages* at the very top of the website and find out the reading by yourself.

It is easy now and it is fun AND it will give you the satisfaction of your own successfull translation.

 

Signatures are written in a patterned style:

First two kanji = Province,

sometime followed by a 3./4. kanji giving a name of a town and a kanji *ju* meaning *living in*

next two kanji = Name of the smith

followed by kanji meaning *made by*, or *this was made by*

 

Now try yourself and post the result and anybody will be happy to assist your further research in your new aquired sword.

 

Greetings

Andreas

[Thierry BERNARD]

Hi Donjohn,I'm sorry I can't help much now but I'm sure you will have some luck later.

I just felt compelled to post to this after seeing the reply above mine.

I'm sure this will come back to bite me later but I see this kind of reply on here all the time and they are of no help at all.

I'm sure the smiley is to soften it up but posting a load of kanji and saying do the rest yourself does not help anyone.

Come on boys lighten up spread your knowledge,it's nothing if it's not shared and this in turn leads to others improving.

 

John I think you don't know google translator so I post a link here https://translate.google.fr/

 

Veli already made the most difficult part!

[Brian]

The forum policy is not just to spoonfeed everyone, but show them how to learn to do it themselves.

Veli was actually very helpful, and using that and the various kanji pages, the rest is easy. People should not mistake language barriers with friendly encouragement to try something yourself. After a few of these, you will be translating 50% of Showa mei without a problem.

Instant gratification is not what we are about..we are about education

 

Brian

[Ask]

Thierry I have various kanji books and various translators,I merely couldn't rely properly as I was at work.

Now I'm home I have edited my post and as I said in my post probably it will bite me and it has.

Not everyone is computer savvy (I'm not) and kanji is very difficult even for some Japanese people.

I'm also aware of how we learn,we learn from others and then we go away and research on our own.

In this instance kanji was the problem,as I said before giving more kanji and the old do it yourself line. I just felt that if the kanji had been given along with the romaji Donjohn could easily have done a search on his own.

[Ask]

Further to my post I'd just like to say this is a new interest/hobby that I recently found myself getting into.

I still don't know my way around the board because when I come I look at translation,general nihonto and for sale. So I had no idea there was a kanji page,some people just want help or an answer. Not everyone wants a masters degree or to buy all the books or study and I think it's a shame that a lot of the time there is an (forgive me please) almost pompous attitude here.

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning John K

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/index.html

 

Cheers

[Ask]

Thanks and good morning to you too Malcom,your a gent and no doubt a scholar.

Good man

[Brian]

John,

Very top of the forum...there is a row of links that can prove very useful. Especially the last one.

 

Brian

[Donjohn]

Thank you all very much for the time you took to respond to my request. I'm actually really interested in the entire process of learning how to interpret and then trace a signature to a particular armorer so thank you Veli for doing the hard part and transcribing the kanji off of the blade. I am fairly tech savvy so using a Japanese translator is no big deal for me. Now for the fun part of researching the information you all have graciously provided me!

 

My thanks once again,

 

Don J.

[Ask]

Nice Brian,when I make my first big find at work you'll be the first person on the list.

[Donjohn]

So I believe the translation works out to: Ko-shū Seki Sumi Kanehiro-saku no.

 

From Markus Sesko's Index of Japanese Swordsmiths, I believe the Kanehiro-saku who signed this sword lived from 1926-1989 in Gifu Province and went by the civilian name Isaji Osamu. It says he studied under Takaba Hidetada and Kita Sadahiro...am I right?

 

The Nihonto Knowledge page had this information listed:

 

Kanehiro

Mino no kuni (Eisho)

Seki

KAN903 (15pts)

noshu ju kanehiro

 

What does the point system mean?

[Brian]

Close. The area is Noshu, so he is Nōshū Seki-jū Kanehiro saku kore.

Made by Kanehiro in Seki (Town) in Noshu (Mino Province)

It is a Showato, meaning not 100% traditionally made, but rather an arsenal blade.

The point system was a relative grading system that isn't really indicative of anything nowdays, besides a comparisson with other smiths. 15 points is low/average.

 

Brian

[Donjohn]

Thank you! How do you think I did in terms of a first purchase? And where do most collectors move to from here (obviously budget plays a role)? Buying research books and reading this board seems to be the prudent course of action...I'm just glad I was lucky enough to buy a real wartime relic...and not a Chinese knock-off.

 

Don

[cabowen]

Indeed, better than a Chinese copy. You might consider starting a library of reference books, attend sword shows, and find a mentor locally if possible to help you along. There is a steep learning curve but with time, patience, study, and direction, you will make progress.

 

This sword is non-traditionally made, meaning the method of manufacture, the materials, or both, are not what was used to make a Japanese sword historically. It was more or less mass produced from Western steel and not forged and water quenched as the traditional blades were. These are not considered collectible Japanese swords but rather militaria.

 

You are in the right place if you wish to further your knowledge. Best of luck to you if you choose to fall down the rabbit hole...

[kuromido]

Hello Don, It seems you pick up quickly so this might not be much help.

I Have found the book "Japanese art signatures" by Self to be a very helpful addition in reading kanji.

The book gives a very easy overview of the topic and lists by radical in the front of the book and stroke count in the back.

This info is readily available online but in the field the book is fast and does not need the internet. It can be found online easily.

I am not sure what the groups consensus is on this book but I like it

Good luck with your studies,

 

PeterD

[Stephen]

Think Grey has Kanji flash cards, maybe check with him. works good.

[Donjohn]

Thanks Peter and Stephen! Didn't realize I needed to get into linguistics when I started this hobby!

[Thierry BERNARD]

Thanks Peter and Stephen! Didn't realize I needed to get into linguistics when I started this hobby!

 

and history, culture, religion, metallurgy, ....

[Jean]

and above all sleeping pills

[bone]

and above all sleeping pills

No don't! It'll only make... you... zzzzzz.