Unsure of value... Help needed please!!!

[nickb]

Hi all!

 

This site might just be the answere to my prayers..........

 

I have 3 samurai swords in which i have to sell as i am moving house and need the cash, they were part of a military collection that was left to me a few years back when after my father passed away, i have a book which tells me what they're worth but these prices are old. I have had them looked at and as i expected got offered way less than hoping. I do not know much about them only what i have been told. I have 1 sword listed on ebay (item number - 300137723632) and was hoping that someone could help me with its background and value, i have been told that this sword was made by Kashu Kiyohira around 1658 and also that this sword was shortened by Kashu Kiyohira around 1658 to suit someone else. Is there anyone that could give me some information on this sword as i'm running out of ideas, all help would be really appreciated!!

 

Thanks

Nicholas Bahlert

[nickb]

just had a reply from someone off ebay regarding this sword, i have had this sword examined by a collector and he didn't say anything about ww2 mounts and faked signature and offered to buy all the swords from me. i'm not trying to hide anything with sword only not get ripped off thats all.....What do you think of his reply???

 

 

Hi, If you ask me you will never sell that sword with that listing. Your pictures are completely useless for a professional collector, you need to make crisp images from the blade, tip temperline etc. The tang is shortened, chopped down, and the signature is faked on it, what was once the blade part itself. The handguard is simple , the mounts are ww2, nothing special. If the blade is free of damages and polish is good with nice temperline you have some chance to get good money out of it, but this way it only worths on an auction about 800-1000 dollar. The best you can get out of it with a good listing is about 1500-1800 dollar in a good day. Please note, it is not worth hiding the problems because collectors feel if someone does it, you must show the entyre surface and detaliled info, otherwise they send it back to you and paypal always give them the money back from you.

[stekemest]

Well, he's right concerning the pictures... no overall photo of the blade, no close-ups of the hamon (which looks like a fake in one of the pictures), no kissaki/boshi pics etc...

 

The leather sheath is WW2, but the rest of the fittings look like edo to me.

 

The pictures aren't good enough to say anything in my opinion (but I'm just a beginner...)

 

Peter

[nickb]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the advice Peter, i will take lots of picture of the sword today and put them on the auction, i am 100% sure that my swords are genuine and wouldn't be dull enough to try and con anyone on a forum that is full of experts!

 

Thanks....nick

[stekemest]

Hi nick,

 

I'm sure you don't want to con anyone, but there are many good fakes of swords around... it's also possible that the blade is machine made from WW2. Let's wait till we see the pictures.

 

Peter

[pcfarrar]

Hi Nick,

 

I know a dealer here in the UK who may be interesting in buying them. He buys all types of Japanese swords. Could you bring them up to Liverpool on a Saturday? At the very least you would be able to get them all properly appraised.

 

Feel free to contact me via PM or email.

 

Peter

[nickb]

Ive taken some pictures of the blade.... hard work too!

can anyone help in working out its background and age?

 

Thanks....nick

[AndreasU]

Hmm,

 

looks like a pretty fake to me. The Tang is unprofessionally shortended and the mei looks also very "genuine".

 

So I bet that this sword will not sell.

 

Sorry for the bad news

[pcfarrar]

It's real but the geometry has been shot to pieces. Looks like the shinogi has been polished out and rounded off.

 

We still need better pictures...

[nickb]

Hi AndreasU!

 

I never expect to get near the 'buy it now' price i am relying more on feedback more than anything. The sword is indeed genuine and i have 2 people interested in all 3 of my swords but the problem i have is i'm not sure of its true value and strangely the sword collector/dealer who has looked at it is has asked to get back to him if i have offers and he will try and beat it so i am back to where i started. Please understand i am not a scammer or from nigeria etc but only trying to get advice on this sword before i sell it because i dont want to lose out on it too much as i dont really want to sell it as this was part of my late fathers military collection

 

P.S. i know ther are a lot of conmen out there but yes this sword is actuall genuine so please can anyone help me?

 

Thanks....nick

[stekemest]

nick,

 

sorry to say that, but your sword is a modern Chinese fake. I'm very sure about this.

 

I think the tsuba is a fake as well. The other fittings, especially the tsuka, look pretty good, but I doubt they are real.

 

Peter

[stekemest]

It's real but the geometry has been shot to pieces.

 

I doubt that. The kissaki and hamon look exactly like all the fakes that recently came out of China...

[pcfarrar]

Everything about the sword is real. If you think that tsuba is a fake you have a lot of learning ahead of you.

[stekemest]

Maybe, but I still think the quality of the carvings is too low. Just my opinion, though.

[nickb]

I'm having problems uploading!

[pcfarrar]

We need a pic showing the entire blade bare. I may be wrong about the geometry it looks like its a hira zukuri katana.

[nickb]

this sword along with 2 others are part of a military that was left 2 me 6 yrs ago after my father passed away, it was quite a collection left and i have no doubt that my father would have had a fake in his collection as everything that i have sold so far is genuine. the sword had a 3500 british pounds price on it and has been inspected by a collector that wanted to buy the 3 swords from me, i wasn't happy with the price he offered and left it at that but now he has recognised the sword and contacted me, this is what he said.......

 

Hello Nick, I recognise this sword !!!!...........Afraid I can't go to the high figure, but whatever offer you get, I might just better it, if I am feeling good that day !!!..............Anyway please come back to me.

 

i dont mind taking a loss on the 3 swords but to be unsure of the true value to start with leaves me scratching my head if you know what i mean!

 

Thanks....nick

[nickb]

picture of the blade coming right up!

[nickb]

please check my ebay auction (item number - 300137723632) for the new pics as i am having problems uploading pictures!

[pcfarrar]

Just upload the images to Imageshack and post the links:

 

http://imageshack.us/

[nickb]

 

 

 

 

[roninjje]

It certainly looks like nihonto that has been buffed down to remove rust and the geometry was shot, perhaps gimie, but not fake as Peter alleges.

 

As for the tsuba, who knows, but this would certainly be a problem fo any polisher to rectify. The sanbonsuji doesn't look fakes, it just looks tired.

 

I would have someone in the UK take a look. I think you are going to get a bit less than you think.

 

The f/k are nice too.

[pcfarrar]

Yes definitely buffed down after seeing the recent pictures.

 

With the geometry of the blade so badly damaged this is going to hurt the value a lot.

[nickb]

thanks everyone for all your help, i have 2 people interested in them so it might be worth getting them appraised once more before contacting the 2 parties. Can anyone tell me who i should take them to to be appraised?

 

Thanks....nick

[Jean]

Hi Nick,

 

Blade has been obviously buffed down.

 

Considering the Nakago, it seems (if it is not gimei) that it has been slightly chopped off: the signature is rightly positionned considering the mekugi ana.

 

I am not seeing any sanbonsugi pattern. but a very regular gunome.

 

In fact I dislike it for the following reason : It is really too regular and for a buffed down blade, how can it be such clearly seen?

 

The beauty in Japonese art is the asymmetric pattern

 

 

Some comments from NMB members are welcomed

[Grey Doffin]

I'm having trouble accepting the blade as real Nihonto. I can buy the kashira as real, possibly the tsuba (although the carving on the seppa dai and the placement of the mei are worrisome), and the nakago could be real Nihonto. The blade, however, looks like chrome plated parade sabre. I'm not saying I think it's a parade sabre; it isn't, just that it looks that way. The exaggerated gunome hamon is too regular, it shows zero activity (not a true hamon but cosmetic), and it nearly falls off the edge in the lower areas of the blade, which may be from improper grinding but also may be from a fake blade.

For what it's worth (2 cents).

Grey

[Jean]

Agreed Grey, this is a fishy hamon .......

[pcfarrar]

You can see a nioi line above the hamon in image showing the full blade. In a couple of the other images you can see itame hada and some kitae kizu. I wonder if it has been badly retempered?

[waynes]

I have to say that I agree with Jean and Grey.

[nickb]

Here's the other 2 swords that i have!