Japanese Revolver

[cabowen]

My understanding is if it was made in Japan, and so marked, and considered an antique (more than 100 years old), it can be imported. The law was originally meant for hinawaju, oh, sorry, I meant matchlocks, but there are later examples such as these colt copies that under the law, should be allowed. I think there are also pin fire and other more "modern" firearms that also qualify that will soon be 100 years old, or are already, and this will cause issues no doubt at import registration are they weren't considered when the law was enacted.

[drbvac]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brian - this is the colt I was thinking of and it is "similar" but not the same -has parts that are the same type of design

[estcrh]

[attachment=0]Japanese_Pistol_FV1.jpg[/attachment]

 

 

 

[attachment=1]Colt_Second_Model_Dragoon.jpg[/attachment]

 

 

 

Brian - this is the colt I was thinking of and it is "similar" but not the same -has parts that are the same type of design

 

A few similar ones.

[Dr Fox]

Having been hand made and fitted, it would not be unreasonable to suspect, a superior revolver to the colt. The latter being after all, a collection of machined parts, fitted together forgiving mass production tolerances.

 

Indeed this pistol shows advancements, that were in fact ahead of the colt and others of the time. The long spur on the hammer, and the dual cutaway in the frame, to allow access to the nipples from both sides of the pistol.

 

Given a choice at the time, this would be the pistol for me.

[Ed]

Sorry just getting back to this. I wish I had rotated the cylinder when I took these photos as there are two different Mons on it, not just the one seen.

 

When compared to the numerous old Colt's I have held, this gun is far superior in workmanship. Perhaps this due at least in part to the care given this gun, but is feels as tight as the day it was made. The cylinder rotation and fit, the trigger/hammer action is smoother than any that I can remember. Most old pistols from this era have a little rattle when shook, soome play here and there, not this one.

 

A google search reveals a little info and a few photos of Kunitomo guns. They apparently made numerous designs including an air gun.

 

Glad you guys have enjoyed as much as I have.

 

BTW: Where is Jean ? I know he likes guns ???

[Brian]

Both topics merged and moved to the correct section.

 

Brian

[Stephen]

Ed I was wondering that as well, im sure he has something to add. Must be on holiday.

 

Glad this was moved to right section.

[Curran]

Jean is the man.

 

After decades of no-one being quite sure what it was- Jean helped identify this 1862 one an ancestor carried it in the Civil War.

Then helped me care for it correctly. He knows his guns.

 

Ed- that is a real beaut.

[Brian]

Wow. A Colt 1862 Police model. Pretty scarce. Very nice.

I have a few antique Colts myself. Really love this Japanese one though. It combines my firearms and Japanese interests perfectly.

Would love to have watched Japanese craftsmen working on these. I am betting it was a custom order by a wealthy client.

 

Brian

[Jean]

I am on holidays guys, under rain. 80 liters per square meters since first of July. No connection unless I find a coffee shop downtown with wifi whoch is the case. Be back August 1st, enjoy my leave

[drbvac]

Hope to clears and you can enjoy your break !! I am off to Northern Quebec for my fishing trip in 2 weeks and can not wait :D :D

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Ed

 

Can you post pics of the other Kamon please.

 

Cheers

[watsonmil]

Dear Stephen et al,

As promised here is a photograph of a Japanese made copy of a Western percussion revolver ... probably a Colt. The following is a quotation of Robert E. Kimbrough the author of the article in the Sept. 1950 issue of the magazine : The Gun Collector

 

" The revolver is engraved with a typical Japanese design - the cherry blossom. Straps and trigger guard are of solid silver and heavier than factory straps. The maker's name, Kokei Nakasawa, appears on the underside of the barrel ( as it would on a matchlock ) and the engraver's name, Jujimen Kamata, on the frame under the trigger guard. One of the gun's most unusual features is its finish - a bright heat blue. "

 

" Colt's design is closely followed except that the octagon barrel and the rammer lever are both tapered giving a more graceful appearance. It is difficult to believe that the precision fitting of parts could be obtained by anything other than machine cutting but evidently such was the case. "

 

The article carries on to describe how this cannot be anything other than a Japanese made copy. In fact although not dealing specifically with this particular firearm, ... practically all of this issue's 24 pages ( 21 pages ) are devoted to Antique Japanese firearms.

 

... Ron Watson

[Stephen]

Thank you Ron

[Bugyotsuji]

Ron, that looks like the same gun that Sawada San featured in his book. ('Straps' of solid silver made no sense to me so I didn't translate that part.) See my post and pics of gun and signatures second from bottom of previous page.

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

Yes, ... I noticed after you had posted the photograph on July 9th. I compared the photograph with the one in the magazine of 1950 at that time and noted the remarkable similarities but I did not see a translation by you of the signatures found on the gun, and admittedly I was too lazy to try my hand at translating. I also could not make out on Sawata's photograph the detail of the engraving. Also note in Sawata's photograph a portion of the backstrap is missing, and also the slight difference in the way the two trigger guards match up as well as the one trigger appears slightly thicker in Sawata's photograph

than in the example illustrated by Mr. Kimbrough ( early touch ups on the Sawata photograph ?? ). The photographs being taken at slightly different angles may account for these minor discrepancies. You are almost certainly correct in saying they are the same pistol. I had promised to post a photograph of the pistol pictured on the magazine cover of 1950 and therefore followed thru. I should have however pointed out to the members that the pistol in Sawata's book and the pistol in the magazine article may well be one and the same ... my oversight.

 

... Ron Watson

[Jean]

Probably a copy of colt navy 1851, barrel is typical.

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

Interesting topic indeed. I just bought this gun.

 

 

It is a Japanese made revolver with calibre .36. Barrel lengh is 5,5"

It has only the marking 1 on two places, the trigger guard and the loading lever.

I know very little about models of American revolvers but looking at this one and considering the calibre, I belive it is a copy of a colt navy 1851.

 

From what I understand Perry brought revolvers to Japan in 1853 and gave away some as gifts. they were then copied in very small numers, hence the scarcity.

Later, from what I understand, Japan both imported revolvers as well as producing them with a colt Brevete license.

 

I have seen copies of later models, like the 1860 and so on. Possibly this could be a really early on off, since it resembles the 1851, in my eyes.

 

Mr Roy Marcot, the author of the book "Colt Brevete Revolvers", has looked at this particular gun and says that it is without a doubt a Japanese manufactured gun.

 

I find them interesting as a collector of Japanese firearms since this must be the last and most modern guns used by the samurai beside the percusion conversions.

 

I will be able to provide better pictures upon it's arrival.

 

Anthony de Vos

[Bugyotsuji]

Anthony, that sounds really interesting. When it arrives, please let us know more about it, and how it feels in the hand.

[Katsujinken]

This is a fantastic thread!

[Bazza]

Well!!  the term "necropost" certainly should not apply here!!  Yeah, maybe Anthony could have started a new thread - BUT - I must have totally missed this in the great wash of posts and topics.  I really enjoyed reading this from start to finish and indeed might write up something for our local antique arms collectors magazine.  What a fascinating topic.

 

BaZZa.

[Guest]

Good evening Anthony.,

 

Excellent buy.

 

Will you shoot with it?

 

My absolute favourite from that era to shoot was a Colt Walker 1847........

 

Immortalised by Clint Eastwood in "The Outlaw Josey Wales".

 

Any gun buffs here shot with a Borschadt C93?

 

I have and, sadly, due to our Nanny state in the UK, no longer can. 

 

A sweet piece of engineering, capricious, yet beguiling..... Like a fine Margaux.

[ChrisW]

It would be horrible to live in England and not be able to collect firearms/modern blades and knives. My condolences for your idiot government. Some people just can't live with the knowledge of others possessing things they don't like. I know I tried to buy some pinfire revolvers from England last month and even though they're obsolete, the seller informed me that no mail carrier would import them to America for me. I was very upset at that.

[paulb]

Chris

Please feel free not to visit our horrible country.

BTW shipping pinfire revolvers to the the USA has not been a problem from the Government, if there is one and I m not sure there actually is,  it is lawyers employed by Fedex (correct me but are they not an American company) who decided they wouldnt ship anything that might result in them being sued should it be used to commit an offense. Thus no tools, kitchen equipment, sporting equipment etc.

Our Idiot Government as you describe them are far from perfect and have far from bathed themselves in glory recently. But look around at what others are doing and I think many deserve your sympathy more than we do.

 

Edit: Ed my apologies for diverting your thread which is very interesting. To get back on track:  Many years ago I think I saw something similar come up for auction in a well known auction house here but that is the only one I have seen in more than 40 years of collecting

[Mister Gunto]

What a cool and unique piece!

 

It actually reminds me of the Colt Walker Dragoon 2nd or 3rd Models, the slightly smaller versions of the huge 1st Model 1847 Walker. Kind of a bridge between the Model 1847 and the Model 1851. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6lxdHIrAPU

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

I found a new revolver with Japanese origin. This one, opposite to my first, is made with the Colt Brevet licens.

 

Calibre 36'. 7,5 inch octagonal barrel. Six shot, walnut grip. Series number 2893. A lotus blossom decoration, (rather sloppy made in my view.)

 

A nice touch is the small mount Fuji decoration.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

My second Bakumatsu era Japanese revolver arrived. here is a side by side. One is obviously a Colt Brevete manufacture of the Colt Navy 1851. But what is the smaller 5 round cylinder, inspired from. Colt dragoon has 6 round cylinder. I like the Japanese touch with the Mount Fuji and the rising sun, respectively.

 

Any input regarding influences on the smaler one is welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

It's suggested that it looks like the small one is a Colt 1849 pocket copy. plausable.

 

Anthony

[Luc T]

Is this,the link between the magnificent 7 and the 7 samurai? ;—)

[Justin Grant]

Anthony,

 

Have you had anymore research into the Colt Navy 1851 history? When I had it "authenticated" as "historic" so FedEx would ship it, the guy wondered about the "American" numbers, as he put it... (we know they are Arabic in origin). Anyway, he suggested to see if the number was associated with the Colt, which says that specific low serial number was an "1851 NAVY (.36 CALIBER WITH NAVAL ENGAGEMENT ON CYLINDER, OCTAGONAL BARREL)".  But I'd give my eyeteeth to have it.. It is a rather excellent gun, and I'd trade my most prized 1886's Winchester Model 1873 Lever Rifle for it, and not blink an eye, and I almost had to sell a child to by the rifle!