Stamp/engraving on Gendaito blade?

[Brian]

Hi all,

 

I was lookig closely at my new Emura blade that recently got through Stephen. Lovely blade, showing everything you want to see in a nice Gendaito.

Something caught my eye on perhaps the 20th time I looked at it.

There is a tiny stamping on the blade

I missed it the first few times, as it is only about 2-3mm across, and seems lightly but well engraved to me. It is in the form of a tiny circle with 4 tiny circles in the middle of that, forming a cloverleaf shape. It looks like it was either engraved there with a tiny instrument, or maybe stamped (looks more engraved)

It is just below the mune, and above the hamon, and roughly in the middle of the blade length.

This blade doesn't look like it has taken much polishing if any since the war, and I am very intrigued by this. Would have taken a very careful hand, and I can't think of a reason it would have been done long after manufacture.

 

Has anyone ever come across this kind of marking on a blade? It is much less conspicuous that the photos make it out to be, and is really small.

Could it be some kind of semi-secret forging signature, polishers mark or arsenal mark?

Simon, perhaps you could ask Ohmura-san if he has ever seen this before on a blade?

 

Hmm..curious.

 

Brian

[Stephen]

I went tru all my photos and scans and could not find it, one good thing if you ever do have a full polish and if any gendaito demands it the Emura does, that will go away, or maybe you dont want it to if it turns out to be something with some history to it. which side is it on? just plane wild

[Brian]

Yeah..I missed it many times. Actually..it was the g.f. who saw it

I wouldn't want it polished off..it is so subtle, and I can't bring myself to believe it was added later. I can only think it was put on there during or just after manufacture. Perhaps it is something not often seen due to the fact that later polishing would remove it. Took me 20 photos to even capture it :D

 

This is really a deep and interesting hobby, and one that never fails to surprise.

Yes, this one definitely needs to go for a full and professional polish and shira saya oneday. So much nie

 

Brian

 

Btw - It is on the ura side.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Please let us updated about this. It's extremely interesting.

Of course, I can't help...

[Brian]

I will certainly do that I don't want this one to just die without some theories. If anyone has any ideas of Gunto/Gendaito experts who might have some idea that aren't online perhaps, please let me know.

Unfortunately Dr Stein is the Emura guy, but is unreachable for health reasons.

 

Thanks,

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

I also think it is very intrigueing! it may not be a stamp but indeed an engraving...

 

have you tried to look into several family KaMon whether there are any symbols looking like the tinly thing on your blade?

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

If anyone has any ideas of Gunto/Gendaito experts who might have some idea that aren't online perhaps, please let me know.

 

I'm asking via PM a friend of mine from SFI to take a look to this thread.

[Ichi]

Hi Brian,

 

Maybe this website might be helpful. It could be Kokura arsenal stamp. Sort of inspection stamp, but then it's engraved in nakago ...

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_033.htm

[Brian]

Hi Erol,

 

Yes, that is Ohmura-san's site, I have asked Simon if he can perhaps contact him and ask about it.

It's not the Kokura stamp, this one is like a larger circle with 4 circles inside it.

Baffles me

 

Brian

[Markus]

Hi Brian,

 

Because it is on such an unusual area of the blade

(not even close to the machi or rather the nakago),

is it possible that just some object shaped like this

hitted the blade (or the other way round)?

 

Markus

[kusunokimasahige]

the end of a Jitte perhaps?

 

KM

[Brian]

No to both.

It is quite clearly very precisely engraved with a very sharp instrument, does not appear to be stamped at all. I measured it, and the diameter is 1.5mm across. Precision work there, definitely not accidental.

 

Brian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Anything to shre with the process of beginning an Horimono later abandoned ?

[Bob M.]

Brian,

I wonder if the mark is associated with the adjacent 'feature' showing just under the shinogi-ji - the two views you have posted show it as bright/dull depending on the angle of the camera . Perhaps this could be like a quality control mark to say 'this feature is noted' or perhaps 'to be rectified later ' - as you say , a polish would easily remove the mark .

It is possible that under the pressure to produce swords that this was never attended to.....

Just an idea.

[Bob M.]

Additional thought - if it is an ' instruction ' to polish out then the symbol could possibly indicate grade(s) of stones to be used ?

[Stephen]

carried away, it could be as sinister as this

>

http://shaolinblackdragon.com/

 

or from a GI from the south

 

http://www.ku-klux-klan.org/oursymbol.html

 

I doubt its anything, well see what Ohmura says.

[Nobody]

Just a thought of a beginner.

Isn't it only a Fukure or Umegane?

[Brian]

I looked at it under close magnification. Not umegane or a fukure. Doesn't appear to be or indicate a flaw in any way. Just a mark engraved there very carefully. Thanks for all the hints so far.

Personally I think it is some kind of tiny signature mark. Maybe one of the prisoners who helped forge it for Emura, maybe from the polisher who polished it. Maybe by the original owner (the mon possibility is there)

I expect it was done in Japan, as a Westerner would have used initials, and not a symbol.

Only things I do know for sure is that it was not accidental, and it is purposely done. Maybe a previous owner used it (long ago down the line) to indicate what blades were once his. Too many theories, and I am afraid I don't think we will ever know the truth

 

Brian