I know very little about swords But I have one

[adanymous]

Hey guys, I acquired a sword I believe to be real and hoped you guys might be able to tell me something about it. I bought the sword from a guy at a gun show who was just walking around with it asking people what it was. He said it was in his dads tool box for years, his dad had passed and he found his young children throwing it around the yard which brought it back to mind and had him curious about it. His dad was a WW II vet and the word corregidor is carved in the scabbard which made sense to me. He wanted $50 for it and I thought it was interesting as was its backstory so I rolled the dice. To be honest Im mostly interested in selling it, im not trying to do that here,im just doing some research to avoid getting rooked if it has any real value. If you guys could help me out Id appreciate it!

[Stephen]

Sure Dan lets see it

[Mark]

post some pictures, we will take a look and tell you what we can

[adanymous]

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b59 ... 5bcde9.jpg

 

Sorry for all the replies im having to use photobucket from my phone and its acting wonky. This is the only way I van make it work. Tried direct loading with no luck

[adanymous]

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b59 ... b26fd2.jpg

 

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b59 ... 6db328.jpg

 

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b59 ... 0757eb.jpg

 

Photobucket is being kind of weird. I have more pics but this about all I can get while its being weird

[adanymous]

Funny story about this sword. Nobody at the gun show had any idea what it was. Several people said it was an old knife and worthless. But because I wrote a paper in a college art class about an art form I found interesting....these swords. I knew enough to know it was a Japanese sword. Ive never used my college education for anything else!

[cabowen]

Kaifu ju Ujiyasu Saku perhaps....It's Japanese and worth $50.

[adanymous]

I dont speak Japanese. And am not a nihonto collector. So if you could restate that in english id appreciate it.

 

How old is it, what does the inscription say?

I figured if its not valuable at all I could have my brother who is an amateur knife maker cut it up and make a nice pocket knife out of it!

[cabowen]

Made by Ujiyasu living in Kaifu. It says something else on the other side but I can not make it all out.

 

It's in poor condition; it might be worth $300-$500 to someone.

[adanymous]

Im not conradicting you at all. I just think its a shame that its not valuable. It really is very pretty, even in its awful condition. It feels like history in my hand. While I thought it was interesting and beautiful I never thought it would be super valuable, but I would have guessed more than a couple hundred dollars. I guess Im glad its not a mistreated materpiece though. That would have been a bigger shame.

 

 

A supposed expert in Tampa told me it was from a given period and appx 500 years old. But he couldnt read the Japanese so I doubted his expertise. Any idea of its age? Any pieces of what the other side says? Im very curious about it.

 

My wifes bosses wife is a Japanese native and she couldnt read it well either. She likened it to old english which I guess makes sense.

 

Thanks for what Ive learned about it so far!

[Gabriel L]

Dan,

 

It's worth very little precisely because it has been terribly mistreated. It appears to be an antique which was thoroughly destroyed by a completely incorrect amateur attempt at "cleaning." Chris's reading, if correct, and if the mei (signature) is genuine, would indicate a smith who worked roughly around the late 1400s in Awa province. But at this point very few collectors would be interested, because:

 

1) It may not be possible to properly restore the blade;

 

2) Even if it is still possible to restore the blade (at great cost), there may be serious flaws hidden under the current surface condition;

 

3) Even if it can be restored and there are no flaws in the blade, the damaged tang will make it difficult to authenticate except through workmanship;

 

3) Even if it can be restored and there are no flaws and the workmanship is a good enough match for Kaifu school in general (or Ujiyasu specifically), collectors still won't like it because the damaged tang makes it a bad example.

 

So basically you are facing a big uphill battle with this blade. That's why the value is basically squat. Collectors have no end of very nice sword options that are in good condition with papers & polish and mounts from reputable dealers… who wants to spend money on a half-destroyed mystery item?

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news… I think you paid roughly the right price for it. Maybe someone out there will take a big chance on it, but you'd have to be lucky and find the right buyer, and they still wouldn't pay top dollar for it as Chris points out.

 

Regards,

 

—G.

[adanymous]

I completely understand. Im an antique gun collector and understand how condition can greatly affect value. Im just amazed at how much that value can be affected by damage in this case. Given my understanding of marking metallic objects id say it is definately done by hand. And the deep grey color of the rust where the grip should be would indicate it is very old. So im of the opinion that it is genuine. However worthless it may be... I had considered having it polished but understand that that would cost several thousand dollars. Being an investor, lack of expertise on a subject plus large investment equal loss to me. So Ill probably not do that. Just seems a sin to call a 600ish year old piece of art valueless. But i guess that means that rarity is not an issue, which is a testament to the culture to care for their antiquities so well. Shame some ignorant person Came to possess it.

 

Any ideas what the other side says? What should be done with it? Would It be terrible to have it made into pocket knives or something similar?

 

I really do appreciate the insight, regardless of value I think its the best $50 ive spent. Just for the curiousity of the thing and the mystery of what it has done and who else has held it

[Gabriel L]

  Quote

Im just amazed at how much that value can be affected by damage in this case.

There's "that'll come right out" damage, and then there's "point of no return" damage. Obviously we are discussing value from a purely monetary standpoint in this case. Everyone here who opened those photos probably had a similar reaction to me, which looked something like this: Because we recognize that it probably had value, not just monetary, but now it's a clunker with no good prospects on the horizon.

 

  Quote

Being an investor, lack of expertise on a subject plus large investment equal loss to me.

That's just the issue. It is just not advisable from a cold-blooded financial perspective. It's a bad bet. Doesn't mean it's utterly hopeless, just that it doesn't make any sense to throw money at it. It almost certainly would never even break even on the restoration cost.

 

  Quote

Just seems a sin to call a 600ish year old piece of art valueless. But i guess that means that rarity is not an issue, which is a testament to the culture to care for their antiquities so well. Shame some ignorant person Came to possess it.

Right on all counts.

 

  Quote

Any ideas what the other side says?

Not offhand, I'll take another look in a bit, but in the meantime I agree with Chris (it is usually safe to do so) that the omote (front) reads 阿州海部住氏安作 Ashū Kaifu jū Ujiyasu Saku (made by Ujiyasu, resident of Kaifu in Awa Province). The only kanji there I am iffy on is the "yasu," but for all intents and purposes it makes little difference in this case. You should understand though that simply translating it is just the first step, the signature and workmanship need to be compared against known examples, and that can't be properly done with the blade in this state. Gimei (false signatures) are common in antiques, many gimei were remounted for WWII, many WWII blades were inscribed with gimei as a sort of good luck charm, etc.… Hell, it could have been scratched on by someone looking to offload it on someone who didn't know better. Not saying that's what happened, but basically there are another bunch of reasons collectors will not be keen on this item.

 

EDIT: the ura (reverse) is just too far gone for me… closest I could get is ？二刀？？？ / 本下金？？ but that is gibberish, it doesn't parse at all.

 

  Quote

What should be done with it? Would It be terrible to have it made into pocket knives or something similar?

See, even with all the doom and gloom, I am still loath to suggest that it should be completely sacrificed… perhaps that says something about the item, more likely it says something about me.

 

—G.

[Brian]

I don't think it is past saving. Depending on how thick it is still, it may be worth having someone look at it.

What concerns me more are the proportions. The overall pic has screwy perspective, making either the tang look too long, or the blade look too short. What is the blade length? It looks to be wakizashi length with a katana nakago. That may mean it is shortened from the front. But may just be the odd perspective. Need some measurements.

If a katana, then you have a hirazukuri katana, which is interesting enough in its own right. If a wakizashi..then how long is that tang?

 

More info, and don't give up on it completely yet. I would rather send a blade like this to someone who usually polishes Showato...than cut it down to make a pocket knife.

 

Brian

[Dr Fox]

Brian

 

You champion the possibility that this blade still has some merit!

 

In your opinion would this be a candidate for a 'window' polish?

[adanymous]

The blade is a bit over 15 inches as I recall. Im about to board a flight so obviously I dont have it with me. The tang is maybe a bit over 4 inches. The thing that strikes me as odd about it is its sharpened only on the right side as the sword is held. And from a completely novice eye id say the tang has not been cut. To my eye it appears proportional. The posted pics are from my phone so pardon them please.

 

Before I ruin it for sure id take a risk and send it to be properly evaluated if you guys have an idea of who has the expertise to do that and the honesty to give it back.

[cabowen]

From what is visible in the photos, I would think it could be restored. The question is, would it be a financial viable move? Kaifu work is not highly thought of, in general. The cost of restoration would easily end up being more than the blade would be worth.

 

The ura mei is hard to see clearly but it might be the name of someone who ordered or carried the blade at some point...Kinoshita Kane ? 木下金 XX

[Bazza]

  adanymous said:

...The thing that strikes me as odd about it is its sharpened only on the right side as the sword is held.

 

We all know this is a katakiriha sugata (shape). I've had as good a look at the photos as possible for the condition, and I just raise the point could this more likely be a Shinshinto Kaifu blade???

 

BaZZa.

[cabowen]

  Bazza said:

We all know this is a katakiriha sugata (shape). I've had as good a look at the photos as possible for the condition, and I just raise the point could this more likely be a Shinshinto Kaifu blade???

 

BaZZa.

 

Which is quite common in Kaifu work...

[Brian]

Well, if it is katakiri-ha, then even more reason to check out if it can be saved. Maybe not by a full and expensive polish, but the shape is unusual and commands a bit of a premium. Sounds like the Kaifu call is spot on. I would still like an overhead shot of the whole blade showing the proportions.

 

Brian

[adanymous]

I dont currently have that pic and am vacationing in the virgin islands. Ill see if I can get my assistant ti take one. If not it will have to wait til monday I guess

[nihonto1001]

Kaifu works can be excellent. There is a large spectrum in the quality of this schools work. I once had a Kaifu Wakizashi in katakiriha form that was extremely beautiful. It was polished by Ted Tenold.

 

It could not hurt to send it to a togishi (polisher) for evaluation, just the price of postage.

[Dr Fox]

Adanymous!!! Sorry I don't have a name to address you by.

 

To my mind you are is a perfect situation. Why? Well lets see, you are out $50, which on the world scale of expenditure is nothing.

The advice here comes free, and further suggestions will help your case. For the cost of postage to a proper polisher, you will then receive some in depth serious advice.

 

From there, you would have to have made some really bad calls, to be out of pocket and suffer a loss.

 

The sense of adventure is worth more than $50, so you are win win, not many have had that pleasure.