Next in an occasional series....

[Bob M.]

Another couple of tsubas pulled at random from my collection.

Help with identification of signatures in the cartouches on the Iris tsuba would be gratefully received.

The Tiger tsuba should be immediately familiar to anyone using Darcys'

screen saver. The signature is apparently gimei - any opinions ? Also,

is there anything that could be done about it - removal etc. ?

[Bob M.]

Closer views of the cartouches ( if it helps ) .

Thanks !

[Ford Hallam]

Hello Bob,

 

thanks for sharing those 2 with us. Both very interesting and attractive pieces.

 

The Katsuhira tsuba is a very fine bit of metalwork in it's own right despite any uncertainty regarding the mei. The fact that it is on the obverse may indicate that it is an 'ato-mei",and rather than an outright attempt to deceive be more of a wishful "attribution". Although personally, I would have chosen Shoami Katsuyoshi as my attribution. The only way to remove the mei would be to inlay a plate of the same material into the ground over the area and repatinate locally. I wouldn't recommend it until you have exhausted all avenues of research into the validity of the mei and taken advice regarding removing it from the NBTHK.

 

The issue of the mei aside, I feel that the design is extremely well conceived and executed. It obviously follows a particular style but never the less is still strongly individualistic. The tiger licking it's paw like that, for instance. The shakudo stripes are also some of the most sensitive and delicate I've seen. I've worked on at least 4 Shoami Katsuyoshi pieces, 2 with tigers. This work is in no way inferior. There are so many aspects of the work I could go on about but that would run to an essay. This in itself makes me feel this tsuba should not be dismissed as "just gimei". There is much more here.

 

Thanks again for sharing,

Ford

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Bob,a very fine-masterly- Tsuba!When looking on Mei examples of this artist (pers.name Hagiya Yasuke from Mito/Hitachi,1804-1886),e.g.Annex to Shinkishi Hara (1932) no.162,Kokubo/Shin-san Kinko Meikan p.58 or The Baur Collection D1062,Your Mei plus Kao may in fact be made by him.But there was no examle to be found,where he omitted "Seiryoken".We already had the discussion about Atomei in the Tosogu field:there is still no proof to be found in the books that -other than with sword forging- an Atomei was used with unsigned pieces.

Mei:

-Shoshinmei:the Mei was made by the stated master

-the Mei was made by a disciple under supervision by the master

(e.g."Soten-School") whether the piece was made by the master himself or a pupil

-a later GOTO-master made a statement that this very piece was made by an earlier Goto-master

-Gimei

Ludolf

PS.If this would be an Atomei,no Kao would have been added to the Go

[Ford Hallam]

Bob, Rudolf,

 

academic discussions of the "precise" meanings of terms like ato-mei aside, I merely used the term in it's literal ( and broadest ) sense. My intention was to suggest that the mei was not cut when the tsuba was first made but rather added later, ie; ato de, in Japanese. The fact that there is a Kao present does nothing to alter this suggestion. If a collector had commissioned an artisan to make the "atomei" they would have simply done what was asked.

 

I would also suggest that a fair few tsuba bearing incongruous mei may in fact also be ato-mei, whether innocent wishful thinking or deliberate deceit remains a moot point. So much for lack of proof though. . Doesn't it seem a little odd to think that while we will happily accept that mu-mei blades were occasionally inscribed with "hopeful" signatures the possibility that the same thing occurred with tosogu is denied? How exactly would one expect to be able to detect, in a book, when exactly an incorrect mei was made? And Rudolf, if this was added after the tsuba was made why do you believe it impossible that the artisan "broke the rules" and added a Kao? Even Japanese people have been known to break rules.

 

cheers, Ford

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Ford,I believe there is no reason or indication to believe that the Mei was entered by someone on demand by an owner at a later date.If this was true,the owner wouldn't have ordered the Mei on the "wrong" side of the Tsuba!Hopefully Bob will get it papered and tell us the outcome!Ludolf

 

PS.My Christian name is Ludolf and not Rudolf (or Ludolph).One ancestor from my mother's side in the 15th Century was in fact a Ludolph (de Oevestvelde),a later Ludolf (von Obstfelder).There are 2 "Ludolf" saints in the Roman Catholic Church.The meaning of the name is "people's wolf",whatever that means!

[Ford Hallam]

Sorry Ludolf, I ought to learn to read more carefully, particularly when dealing with wolves , peoples or otherwise.

 

regards, Ford ( Hallam~ from the 12th cent Arabic d'Allam, and thence to France and finally England)

[Pete Klein]

it's spelled d'Allam, but pronounced 'Throat Warbler Mangrove'.

 

Python, Monty.

[Bungo]

ok with me if it's not the full monty..........

 

milt the ronin

[Ford Hallam]

it's spelled d'Allam, but pronounced 'Throat Warbler Mangrove'.

 

only if you're a knight of Nin :D

[Bob M.]

Thanks Ford and Ludolf for your replies - I will try to get an opinion on the 'Katsuhira' from the next Shinsa that I can attend - still not quite sure if the tiger is licking himself after a good meal or is looking at me in anticipation of the next one .

[Bob M.]

Hi Ford,

 

Upon re-reading your first contribution to this thread , I wonder if it would be possible for you to expand slightly on your comments re the work involved in the making of the tiger tsuba ?

I have been stimulated to look at the tsuba in much greater detail than previously and feel that inspite of the more spectacular work being on the front , the craftsmanship on the reverse is at least its equal - if not even better. In particular , the treatment of the bamboo twigs and leaves , the tiny portion of the tigers tail beneath the bamboo rim , the way in which the bamboo reduces in diameter etc etc.

Thanks are due to you and everyone who have shown an interest ( including private messages ) to make me take a closer look....

[Mantis dude]

the first thing that stood out to me was the tiger striping. As commented that is shakudo? That is extremely nice. I got lost in that and didn't even notice the well constructed face and fangs. Nice piece. Certainly I would never have the sig removed. It fits on the piece and I am a strong believer in leaving things alone! thanks for sharing.

 

I have to visit more often, been away too long!