Wakizashi cutting tests

[Ken-Hawaii]

I've been admiring the Yasuhiro wakizashi that Nick has for sale on the For Sale thread (http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19285), & I'm now wondering just how that type of cutting test can be accomplished.

 

I've trained in iaido for many years, & teach tameshigiri for both my dojos, so I have a pretty good feel for how to cut with a katana, although not through human bodies, of course. But doing a "cut through the chest of one body" using a wakizashi seems awfully difficult to comprehend. You're cutting with one hand, & even if the body was propped up vertically, is anyone strong enough - & the blade sharp enough - to cut completely through ribs, spinal column, & the rest of the body with a wakizashi? Since I'm not absolutely sure that the Nick's blade cut completely through the body (it does say through the chest), I found another wakizashi (http://new.uniquejapan.com/namboku-nobukuni-wakizashi/) that "cleanly cut through one arm and through the torso of a dead human being (near the waistline)."

 

The kinematics of doing such cuts has me scratching my head. Anyone out there who can shed some light?

 

Ken

[nihonto1001]

I believe the tester fashioned an extra long handle. Some of these handles were purported to be made of iron, bound to the nakago.

[Dr Fox]

Picking it up from Jon. I have seen drawings of testers tsuka. Long affairs with several positions for fitting mekugi pegs, when fitted iron bands can be slipped up the tapers to 'tighten' the blade. As can then be imagined, the cutting area of the blade can be utilised, with greater effect, due to the leverage exerted by the longer tsuka.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Thanks, Jon & Denis. Any references, preferably with photos or illustrations? My Kubikiri Asaemon Token shows nothing except katana or tachi.

 

Ken

[Guido]

I hope this helps ( ):

[Ken-Hawaii]

Many thanks, Guido. Nothing I've ever seen before, but that makes a lot of sense to replace the short wakizashi tsuka with a much longer temporary one.

 

Is there a big pricing advantage in adding a cutting test to a wakizashi? I'm not sure of how they were priced to Samurai, but since wakizashi were always worn, I'm assuming they cost a lot less than a katana of equal provenance. Until Nick posted his, I'd never even heard of a wak with a cutting test.

 

Ken

[Guido]

I'm not sure about pricing back in the day, but to my knowledge the test was done after the samurai bought the sword, so he had to pay extra for it, not paying a premium for a sword that had already been tested, as it is nowadays. They obviously had a higher value after going through a test, but there was not much buying/selling of swords among the samurai anyhow, they either bought a sword for themselves to keep it, or as a present to someone else. I don't think the Daily Edo Gazette had a FS/WTB classifieds section for swords ... :lol:

 

Btw, there are quite a few wakizashi with cutting tests around, mostly ō-wakizashi.

[Travis Clarke]

Here's a nice wakizashi with a two and three body cutting test.

 

http://www.samuraisword.com/nihonto_c/c ... /index.htm

 

Wazamono ranked smith. I just started seeing cutting test wakizashi for sale recently. Nice sword though. Wish I could afford it.

[Jesper]

Guido: Thank you for the pictures.What publication do they come from?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Jesper

[Guido]

What publication do they come from?

They are from the 7 volume Kokon Kaji Bikō 古今鍛冶備考, published in 1830 by Yamada Asaemon Yoshimutsu 山田浅右衞門吉睦.

[Jesper]

Thank you. Much appriciated

 

BTW, there was an interesting article on cutting tests by Imoto Yûki in the NBTHKs Tôken-Bijutsu journal, volume 3, 2013: Essay on cutting tests with several stacked bodies.

Jesper

[Stephen]

Remember seeing that somewhere, and found it in Sword and the Same'

It also brings me to muse that on Katana we often see two mekugi ana close to each other, could it be that the tester wanted two pegs in the trial haft?

Was it used most of the time not to soil tsukas and ito?

interesting thread

[Dr Fox]

Some 45yrs ago, after obtaining my first katana, I think I developed a morbid interest in this subject. Some of what I learned from sources during that time seemed to have remained. It goes without saying, that due to time and memory, I stand to be corrected.

 

The cutting test tsuka did not always replace one that was fitted to the sword, as in many cases new forged swords, before being fitted out were tested. So a means of handling the blade was needed.

 

There were smiths, who wanted it to be known that their blades were beyond question, in regards the performance of their swords for the required purpose. Also personal owned swords were tested for their owners satisfaction, the value of this not primary in monetary terms, but the kudos for being the owner of such a blade.

 

Destruction testing by cutting was also a feature in more modern times, even to the point of testing on iron plates. But I digress, the issue at hand was to deal with the trial haft.

 

From my first description, drawings have been shown as to the device. This is the accepted way that was carried up to and past WW2. To illustrate the point, is a photo from Tom Kishida’s book Yasukuni Swords. Page 72.

 

It shows Osaki Shigeharu (Sakite) testing in suemomo-giri style, a shrine blade in 1940, note the testing tsuka. Its not hard to see its form, also note the koi-guchi wedge inserted and the iron hoop pushed up to cause a lock action. The haft was tapered from its base, so inertia would tighten the iron hoops, during the downward swing of the sword.

[Alex A]

How do we know if a cutting test inscription is authentic?, not all come with silver or gold inlay. If it adds value then surely there must be fakes?

[Guido]

Remember seeing that somewhere, and found it in Sword and the Same'

The "Sword and Samé" is an interesting read, but the section about sword testing is not very accurate - just compare the original drawing with the one where a massive iron plate is added by the author. The description of the original says that mostly helmet bowls were tested with it.

[Guido]

How do we know if a cutting test inscription is authentic?

The same way we evaluate regular mei, by comparing them with authentic inscriptions.

[Alex A]

I see, cheers Guido That makes me ask, if a sword with a cutting test inscription goes to get papered, is the inscription also evaluated?, aplogies ken for going off on tangent!

[Guido]

IIRC, swords with fake tameshi-mei get rejected at shinsa, but my memory is going down the drain fast ...

[Alex A]

Thanks Guido.

[cabowen]

While saidan mei recording the testing done by well known members of the two established testing families can be checked, there are many saidan mei recording the results of unknown testers. These are nearly impossible to verify as genuine or discredit as false, though some are so unrealistic that they can probably be discounted.

[nihonto1001]

Ken

 

I saw a test cut wakizashi at the Orlando Sword Show that went through one body (at the chest). I was amazed because of its small size. It seemed like it was 17" at best.

 

Joe Forcine did a nice presentation on the subject. I believe it was his wak. Purportedly, wak test cuts are very rare.

 

Valuing something like this brings up a whole other debate.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I don't think that's the least bit off-topic, Alex. I'd planned to ask the same question myself.

 

I just ran across this (http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/mw1_ge/kap_4/illustr/i4_1_1.html) on some of the specifics of cutting tests.

 

Ken

[Dr Fox]

Ken I find I disagree on one point in the link.

 

Rank 1 is described as the hardest cut, I from memory believe its actually Rank 2 in the illustration, Its through the hips, known as 'the pair of wheels' anyone second this?

[Guido]

I hope Markus will publish his new book soon, it'll answer all questions asked here, and a few more. Consider the scans I'm posting in this thread as kind of a preview .

 

You're right, Denis, I marked the most difficult cut in red, it's the one going through the hip bones (両車):

[Markus]

it'll answer all questions asked here, and a few more.

 

Oh yes. I will go into detail on that and explain over several pages how the nomenclature

of cutting tests (old vs. new, Yamano vs. Yamada) has changed. I will also address of

course the testing of wakizashi and tanto and the use of tameshi-tsuka (like posted before)

and tameshi-tsuba and the like.

 

And Chris is right. We are facing a bunch of early cutting tests (and with early I mean

early Edo period) which we just can´t confirm because of the lack of comparative examples.

That meant we have to take them as they are, some of them with a grain of salt.

 

BTW: I am working on the final chapter at the moment. The main part of the book is finished

and has been proof read. I hope it answers all questions as Guido kindly placed his cofidence

in me. :D

[Guido]

The suspense is killing me ...

[steve oakley]

Like many, I too am awaiting the book from Markus. What I can't find an answer for is who was responsible for placing the cutting test on the mei. The tester or another?

 

Chris, you mentioned that saidan mei recording from the two established testing families can be checked. Is there a particular reference or book for this?

 

Regards

Steve O

[cabowen]

Like many, I too am awaiting the book from Markus. What I can't find an answer for is who was responsible for placing the cutting test on the mei. The tester or another?

 

Chris, you mentioned that saidan mei recording from the two established testing families can be checked. Is there a particular reference or book for this?

 

Regards

Steve O

 

 

For now, the book Guido has referenced is a start. Or you can do a google search and find a papered example.

[Ken-Hawaii]

And of course I'm looking forward to your book, Markus.

 

Ken

[Nickupero]

I have an interesting Shinto Katana with cutting test. I believe the cutting test performed was on a body hung in upright position. Anyone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong but the test was through the center of the body, literally cutting the body lengthwise in half through the central chest cavity and spinal cord all the way down, starting from the head and finishing at the pelvis. If so does that include the head?

Does anyone have pictures/ diagram of this upright style?? (Guido, wink wink) Thx

 

Here's a snapshot of the Nakago