bone Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 to start with I'm certainly not interested in buying something this poor for what they are asking tut my question is, is this blade, poor as it is, worth saving at all? http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword3.html
paulb Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 Hi Steve I think you need to differentiate between saving and restoring. I think as the description says the sword is fatally flawed and could not be restored to its original condition (or even close). Any money spent on attempting to restore it wouldd be wasted. However it costs little to stabalise and preserve a blade and as a piece of history I believe it should be saved. Even in it's current condition it probably has detail worth studying and tolearn from
bone Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Posted June 8, 2014 Thank you Paul and I agree with your assesment. I'm just not financially in a position to purchase it. The price puts it out of my reach to simply save it. I certainly hope someone else does though.
bobtail44 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 Around 3000 usd for that? The seller is dreaming. The blister really puts me off and I wouldn't be surprised if a further polish revealed more flaws. Definitely one to stay away from. Trent Spencer
bone Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Posted June 8, 2014 well I made an offer of less than half the asking price. It's mid 14th century and I don't intend to ever have it polished. I just feel it's an artifact worth saving... but at minimal cost. Still I understand your disdain. This blade will never be a "collectors" item again. But I'd sure hate to see something this old and well made being used by a modern samurai whacking innocent bushes with it.
bobtail44 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 well I made an offer of less than half the asking price. It's mid 14th century and I don't intend to ever have it polished. I just feel it's an artifact worth saving... but at minimal cost.Still I understand your disdain. This blade will never be a "collectors" item again. But I'd sure hate to see something this old and well made being used by a modern samurai whacking innocent bushes with it. At 3000 dollars its pretty safe from modern samurai in his shop id say id save your money and preserve a wakizashi in good condition instead. The blister is a forging flaw so it isn't that fantastic, but that is just my opinion. If it didn't have the forging flaws and the horimono it might be a different story. Trent Spencer
bone Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Posted June 8, 2014 Everyone keeps telling to find a wak to save. (I prefer katanas but I already have a beauty.)Still where are these wonderful waks I keep hearing about?
bone Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Posted June 8, 2014 Around 3000 usd for that? The seller is dreaming. The blister really puts me off and I wouldn't be surprised if a further polish revealed more flaws. Definitely one to stay away from. Trent Spencer and the seller is usagayia. Never bought anything from them. always seem overpriced to me.
bone Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Posted June 8, 2014 Before I let this thread die, any of the big boys want to weigh in?
bone Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Posted June 8, 2014 Well they accepted my offer so... I don't renig on my offers. I'll soon be the proud owner of this blade. But for 15000yen not 300k.
bobtail44 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Well they accepted my offer so... I don't renig on my offers. I'll soon be the proud owner of this blade.But for 15000yen not 300k. Good deal 150 dollars isnt bad for a piece of history. Trent Spencer
Brian Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Pretty obvious he meant to type 150,000. $1500. Brian
chrstphr Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 the sori looks way to much to be shortened and from the mid 1400s. More likely not that old in my opinion. The description says MIGHT be a tachi from 1400s. Most shortened tachi from that time period have little sori because of the shortening of the original shape. Most of the curve was near the nakago, not in the middle of the blade. especially seeing how short it is with the sori it still has. i would say shinto to shinshinto when they were replicating older sword styles. I think most of that description is more hope than anything. Chris
bobtail44 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Pretty obvious he meant to type 150,000. $1500. Brian I hope not because the blade is rubbish :/ $150 was a good price. What you are saying unfortunately seems closer to the truth though. Trent Spencer
Dr Fox Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 I think in all fairness, the seller is offering a bag full of reasons not to buy the blade. But the references to the small areas, that suggest quality can still be seen, could be just the come on to entice a sale. And it did.
bone Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Posted June 10, 2014 Not anymore. i put down 10 percent and have asked for it back based on the comments here. Probably won't get it but it's worth a shot. Now about that tachi...
bobtail44 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Smart move, about the tachi, you would seriously be better off buying something cheaper of quality or saving up. There are a lot of people looking for the same thing that you are and they are very efficient. A good cheap tachi is about 4k starting price. A good cheap wakizashi you can get for 1200 and up. Trent Spencer
Alex A Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Hi Trent, where have you seen a good cheap tachi for $4000?
bobtail44 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Hi Trent, where have you seen a good cheap tachi for $4000? Ebay as well as private sales I've seen them go for between 3-4k for thr cheapest. Not justa one off either. Trent Spencer
Alex A Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 $4000 will get you a very decent old wakizashi, with papers.
Brian Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I am not impressed with using the forum comments to get out of a committed deal. The Kashima Sisters are a respected dealer, and you need to follow through with a promise if you make such a low offer and it is accepted. The faults were all clearly mentioned and nothing was hidden. There was enough info to decide before committing. I would hate for dealers to see this forum as an avenue for people to get out of deals. The honorable thing would be to explain to them you are new, made a hasty decision, realize that such a blade is not a good beginner sword, and offer to pay any concellation fee that they feel appropriate. Brian
Marius Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 the sori looks way to much to be shortened and from the mid 1400s. More likely not that old in my opinion. The description says MIGHT be a tachi from 1400s. Most shortened tachi from that time period have little sori because of the shortening of the original shape. Most of the curve was near the nakago, not in the middle of the blade. especially seeing how short it is with the sori it still has. i would say shinto to shinshinto when they were replicating older sword styles. I think most of that description is more hope than anything. @Chris With all respect, but Kokaji's knowledge is likely to be superior to yours (unless you live in Japan and forge nihonto for living). You have based your rather hasty statement on photos alone and in these photos you see only the sori. I would refrain from making such statements, especially if I were to base them on one kantei point only (and you have got even this point wrong). @Trent Your comment about the sword's value was based on your perception of value, and, I am very sorry to say, meaningless. You will go a long way with a slightly more humble attitude. @Steve I hope they will let you off the hook, the Kashima sisters and Kokaji are very kind people, so there is a chance they will. This would be a lesson not to act quickly when making a purchase, @Brian I fully agree with you, Brian. IMHO this thread should be deleted alltogether, unless you see some educational value in it. Of course that is your decision only.
GrantK Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Well they accepted my offer so... I don't renig on my offers. I'll soon be the proud owner of this blade.But for 15000yen not 300k. Not to tell you what to do, but I do prefer your initial sentiment of following through with the deal you presented. You made an offer of 50% the cost which was accepted, with ample pictures and a description, which at least to me is very critical and descriptive of the state of the blade. Don't rush in this hobby, even $100 will put you closer to something you truly want!
Jean Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Steve A deal is a deal. Part of the learning process. And please, avoid to start a thread by: "I'm certainly not interested in buying something this poor" When it is not the case.
Dr Fox Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Not anymore. i put down 10 percent and have asked for it back based on the comments here. Probably won't get it but it's worth a shot. Now about that tachi... Steve You have put the cart before the horse. You asked for, and should have considered the opinions offered here. Then made a decision on a purchase! But opinions they are, and should only be used, to confirm your own knowledge on this subject. No one here wants to spend your money for you, you decided to try for a discount, and your offer was accepted. Honouring an accepted bid by both parties, is a way that we as collectors see how business is done. The suggestion that you wear a humble hat, and contact the dealer is the very least that could be expected, my suggestion would be a letter. Regards
bobtail44 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Marius, If my perception of the value of swords was meaningless, then after three years interest in the hobby I wouldn't be sitting here looking at a 12 nihonto. Four of which are nbthk papered (two katanas and two wakizashis) and they rest which are very beautiful pieces which have never been sent for shinsa. I started with a $1100 dollar investment (%40 of which I borrowed) in the hobby of nihonto and militaria and now I have all of that which I paid for using my observations and opinion of what has value though buying and selling. I have never pretended to be a scholar or professor but I am just offering my opinions in conversation so that I can better enjoy my hobby and get to know others here. Nobody I know in person has a remote interest in it. Aside from nihonto, I race dirt bikes, hunt, 4WD, wake board, travel, real estate etc so I am very busy and can't always allocate as much time as id like to educate myself on the finer points of antique sword forging. Also I have just turned 25 so luckily I have many more years ahead of me to enjoy what im doing. Trent Spencer Ps. I also appreciate it that when I ask questions which I consider are good ones that people either kindly answer or don't respond, instead of actively brushing them off you should let people reply instead of suggesting deletion of a thread after you have commented thank you
bobtail44 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 The positives are that at least if you pay for the sword, each time you look at it you will know that you learned and did the right thing. Id never suggest what you should do though unless asked, im just seeing the positives if it were me There seems physically to be a lot to learn from that blade as well. Trent Spencer
Stephen Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 what should have been learned from the get go, pass on by the big hunker of a blister...then this thread would not have been ...and been ...and been. Maybe there is a lesson in here, do you know what it is Steve?
Marius Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I also appreciate it that when I ask questions which I consider are good ones that people either kindly answer or don't respond, instead of actively brushing them off Trent, I must have missed something, as I haven't seen you asking a single question in this thread. But you make statements with great confidence...
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