Theme question:

[Pete Klein]

Hey -- I have a tsuka with Daikon F/K and menuki (I'm not 100% sure on the menuki - might be some other root vegetable) and am wondering if anyone has an idea as to the significance of this theme? I know they are part of the New Year's offerings but nothing else. I have seen this theme used on fittings over the years but somewhat rarely.

 

Thanks so much!

 

[John A Stuart]

The daikon and kabu as root vegetables are associated with autumn. Daikon no hana, late spring, but, that is the greens only. There was a lacquer piece that used the daikon to represent "The Shining One', Buddha. John

[Pete Klein]

thanks John! I must wonder whom would wear this motif, and why?

[John A Stuart]

The significance eludes me other than that. The same applies to Mino-bori. We know that autumnal flowers dominate the type, but, why? They could have carved spring, summer etc. flowers just as easily. True also that the goose is an autumn motif and appears in so many sukashi tsuba. The moon is associated with autumn. In haiku, these saijiki and kiyose have specific rules of order and evoke certain emotions or events. Does it mean the same with tousogu? John

 

I add a pic of a F/K I have with turnips and mouse. The mouse is not a seasonal motif (I would associate it with fall myself though), but, does represent plenty. J

[Pete Klein]

I Loves Meeses to Pieces... a little (very little) play on an old cartoon line.

 

That's a very nice F/K! There must be a basic symbology associated with this theme as it is recurring.

[Guido]

The turnip is also associated with Zhūgě Liàng, the famous strategist from the Three Kingdoms period of China, the story of which was very popular in Japan. Zhūgě Liàng ordered the pickling of turnips, so his soldiers could have salt and a vegetable for their rations. In China it's still called "military pickle".

[Curran]

Perhaps don't overthink it.

 

Daikon is as omnipresent in the food as tofu (and kimchee in my case).

Almost anything can be done with it and it grows massively large even in mediorcre soil like our FL sand. I admit to having grown small crops of these.

We use almost ever inch of them, and there are 101 different ways to use them. They must have been a huge part of the Edo (non meat) diet.

[Guido]

Perhaps don't overthink it.

Good point, but how much staple food-themed kodōgu have you seen? I don't think fittings makers got ideas for their work from what was on their dinner table. I have no proof, of course, but the possibility that a fittings theme hints towards a military strategist instead of the neighborhood vegetable store is IMO more likely.

[BMarkhasin]

I have a 1911 book given to me (65 pages), devoted to Japanese calendric floral symbolism. The author compiled a symbology for each flower, taken from modern Japanese as well as historic sources, and it was interesting how some changed through time. I dont doubt that if one was to delve deeper, they would find numerous obscure daikon symbologies. I suspect some would be indigenous, while others borrowed from Chinese historic/cultural sources. Didn't Joly compile a book on Japanese mythology, symbology?

 

Best,

Boris.

[Henry Wilson]

The round variety of daikon is known as Sakurajima daikon from the Kagoshima area:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakurajima_daikon

 

During the Edo Period the area was part of the Satsuma domain, ruled by the Shimazu family.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_ ... Prefecture

 

Daikon, along with a lot of other foodstuffs, were believed to have medicinal properties. Also the round shape looks a bit like a helmet and as you all know the kanji 大根 means large root.

 

Putting these facts together and we have a theme for some kodogu I suppose. I especially like daikon in miso soup.

[Lee Bray]

Daikon are also used almost exclusively for cleaning soft metals prior to patination.

Perhaps this theme is the artists way of saying thank you to the humble radish for doing such a sterling job in the workshop.

[Guido]

The round variety of daikon is known as Sakurajima daikon from the Kagoshima area:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakurajima_daikon

The giant one, yes, but usually it's called kabu 蕪. As they say in Thailand: "same same, but different" :D.

[Tanto54]

Dear Pete,

 

What you have is a Hine Daikon (sorry, I couldn't resist). Come on fellas… What does Dai-Kon mean?

Giant Root

I think that it is much more likely that this is jovial boasting rather than someone who appreciates the seasons, culinary arts or an organic patinating agent.

[Guido]

Same family, but as I pointed out already, there's a difference between daikon and kabu, Pete's fuchigashira is showing the latter.

The longer this thread goes on, the more I have to agree with Curran about overanalyzing ...

[Henry Wilson]

As they say in Thailand: "same same, but different" :D.

Thanks Guido. That is confusing. I feel a bit like this:

[Brian]

Perhaps don't overthink it.

 

Daikon is as omnipresent in the food as tofu (and kimchee in my case).....

Yep..but when is the last time you saw tofu represented on koshirae?

True, we are over-analyzing. But I suspect there was a reason we see this so often on fittings and not many other foods. Not important in the grand scheme of things, but fun to theorize.

 

Brian

[Curran]

Strangely interesting thread.

[i still have decades to go until catching up to the current Japanese proficiency of some members here, but was introduced to a double does of the Kagoshima accent last night. Cross reference that with our daikon or kabu discussion].

 

As George reminded and I learned last year, "big root" is also a bragging euphemism. There was a KDrama two or three years ago set in the late Joeson period at Sungkyunkwan University. The lead character was given the nickname "big unit" or "big root" by the local Kisaeng [state controlled 'pleasure quarter']. It came the big running joke of the series.

 

Tofu doesn't make for pretty art. Have seen it. Usually it is more fruit, vegetables, millet, rice, dried fish, etc.

 

Another way to approach this is to ask the more Japanese culture knowledgeable what are the NEGATIVE connotations? As Lee hit on, this vegetable is used to do about everything except go fishing. Even then, could serve as a fish clubber. Why would a samurai NOT want such a generally positive and acceptable theme on his sword? He can say it means X to person1 in the castle, and Y to person2 in the street, and Z to person3 in the pleasure quarters? Japanese ambiguity?

 

Pete: love the f/k and do remember the Meeses to Pieces (Snaggletooth from Hanna Barberra, no?)

[Pete Klein]

All very interesting. Several years ago I had this kozuka, attributed to Goto Teijou (pictured in the NBTHK book on Goto Kozuka, 1995), which has the same theme. I actually had forgotten about it but recalled this morning. If anyone can translate the text there might be something on the theme.

 

[cabowen]

it simply says that the kabu theme has been used by the Goto family from long ago...

[Pete Klein]

OK -- oh well -- never know, right?

 

Thanks Chris!

[John A Stuart]

Not Snaggletooth who always wanted to 'exit stage left', but, Jinx the cat who 'hates meeces to pieces'. John

[Pete Klein]

Samurai Jinks:

 

[Markus]

The Tsuba-kodôgu gadai-jiten says that as kabu (蕪) and daikon (大根) are - as Guido already pointed out - related, (大根) was sometimes also read kabu. The mouse is regarded as messenger of Daikokuten, one of the Seven Gods of Fortune, and was used as "increasing" or "emphasizing" iconographic element. That means a mouse emphasized the lucky effect/symbolism of Daikokuten and thus the duo was extended by the turnip where kabu has to be understood as play on words, referring to kabu (株) which means "stocks, shares". So Daikokuten, mice, and turnips meant altogether "fortune + prosperity + happiness + profit".

 

Thus the combination motif of mouse and turnip has to be seen in this context, even without Daikokuten.

 

So when a motif doesn´t make much sense at a glance, it is always good to check if there is a play on words. For example the combination motif of horse and turnip: A horse jumps (haneru, 跳ねる) and so this "jumping/leaping" goes quasi symbolically over to the turnip, kabu. Kabu ga haneagaru (株が跳ね上がる) means namely "the stock prices are skyrocketing".

[John A Stuart]

Thank you. May some kabu be in your future. John

[Pete Klein]

So, Markus, without the mouse, wherein is the meaning of my tsuka ornamentation? :| (lol)

[Markus]

@Pete: I think it stands for shares, kabu (株), or in the generic sense for profit.

There were also the kabunakama merchant guilds BTW.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabunakama

[Pete Klein]

OK -- the reason I am questioning this is that this tsuka is from a katana and that would have been worn by samurai, not a merchant with a wakizashi. I can't grasp 'shares' having to do with samurai, although perhaps I am being a bit naive...

[Bugyotsuji]

RE: Kabu, turnip, round. (Not Daikon, which are long and fat.)

 

Guido's Zhuge Liang Three Kingdoms theory makes most sense to me after reading all these comments, because of the martial aspect. The Goto theme may also stem from there.

 

There is also the famous traditional children's story of the giant Kabu (turnip) which could not be pulled up, so the whole family and all the animals had to pull together to pop it out. Shades of everyone being part of a team, pulling together?

 

An army marches on its stomach. Japanese troops probably had one pleasure during their day, the meals. During a siege or a battle or a march, the thought of food must have kept them going and a beautifully artistic depiction would surely have been a delight to behold.

 

Kabu is also the sound for another word for head, = Kashira. The Kabu turnip was also used as a Mon.

[Markus]

from a katana and that would have been worn by samurai, not a merchant with a wakizashi

 

I thought the same and with all the explanations in mind, I tend to interpret turnips as one of the numerous

"auspicious symbols". I think that´s the lowest common denominator.

 

But an educated samurai would have got the hint to Zhūgě Liàng too I guess, if it was meant as an allusion.