bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Just got this sword in the mail http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1329707244 Very disappointing, nothing like the description, mostly blunt and bends to the right a few inchs back from the tip. Nics all along the edge. I thought: http://www.ebay.com/usr/ericowazamono?_ ... 7675.l2559 had good feedback and wouldn't lie all the way through a description. Beware people, it definitely was not a flawless blade as he described I cleaned the blade after touching it, I was just illustrating that it was so blunt I could push my hand up and down it. Very sad, second worst ebay experience ever xP Images below if you think you can authenticate the mei or inform me of its value Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 If the item is not as described and it has not been damaged in transit, why don't you return it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shugyosha Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well, if it's a genuine Koyama Munetsugu katana, given what you have paid for it, the likely re-sale value would mean that it is worth having it straightened and polished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 If the item is not as described and it has not been damaged in transit, why don't you return it? I am, still $100 shipping T Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well, if it's a genuine Koyama Munetsugu katana, given what you have paid for it, the likely re-sale value would mean that it is worth having it straightened and polished. Im not enough of an expert to tell tbh. The description was a lie so I don't have much faith in the mei. Ill upload detailed pics of it and you guys can tell me. What is this smith worth if the blade is in good condition and the mei is correct? Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I honestly bought the sword because I liked the look of it. If it is worth the money to restore id look down that line, but id need help deciding. Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hopefully these pictures from my phone in a badly lit room are sufficient to allow you to make a judgement on the authenticity of the mei and help me make a decision Thanks Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabowen Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 gimei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 gimei. Why do you say that? its a very long signature to fake. Im interested to learn, are you comparing it to a oshigata you have or a blade? Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabowen Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Koyama Munetsugu is a famous and oft faked smith. The mei on this blade is rather poorly cut- notice the uneven placement of the kanji as a start, particularly in the date. You can google him and compare to valid examples if you wish. Eric goes to all the sword shows- he is a dealer. He undoubtedly has researched this blade and showed it around. I think it is a safe assumption that if he thought it was genuine he wouldn't be selling it on ebay for pennies on the dollar. If you insist on jumping in the shark tank, you best protect yourself by suiting up with some knowledge and common sense or you will continue to be mauled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Koyama Munetsugu is a famous and oft faked smith. The mei on this blade is rather poorly cut- notice the uneven placement of the kanji as a start, particularly in the date. You can google him and compare to valid examples if you wish. Eric goes to all the sword shows- he is a dealer. He undoubtedly has researched this blade and showed it around. I think it is a safe assumption that if he thought it was genuine he wouldn't be selling it on ebay for pennies on the dollar. If you insist on jumping in the shark tank, you best protect yourself by suiting up with some knowledge and common sense or you will continue to be mauled. Well said! :D thanks for the info as well ill try and find an example I can compare. Hes giving me a full refund, all good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 If he is offering a full refund, then I consider the matter solved, and will be removing this thread. How a seller responds to a complaint is just as important as the sale itself. Btw..from a known seller of Nihonto, a big name MUST be assumed to be gimei if sold cheap. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 If the description is way off, I think a honest seller should offer full refund including shipping. My 2p, of course. Description on the auction page says "flawless" and "no bends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 If he is offering a full refund, then I consider the matter solved, and will be removing this thread. How a seller responds to a complaint is just as important as the sale itself.Btw..from a known seller of Nihonto, a big name MUST be assumed to be gimei if sold cheap. Brian Unfortunately I am still out the $100 dollars it will cost to send it back. Simple honesty would have saved me a lot of time and hassle. If I had seen a thread like this before my purchase it would have never occurred. Why do you feel the need to delete it? Just because he has to return my money doesn't mean I am happy with the transaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 difficult situation. I agree with Chris' comments. If you buy a sword on ebay with a famous name, from someone knowledgeable (just check other items and feedback, if someone has sold a lot of swords it is likely he knows what he is doing) you should expect it is gimei. If the mei was correct the sword is worth a lot more than double what you paid. So if you think you know what you are doing and it is a genuine signature you more than doubled your money. I have made mistakes and sold great blades cheap (check past threads), Eric and all of has probably done the same. If the seller is refunding the price that seems very fair, if you had not bid maybe the under bidder would have won the sword and been happy, so the seller looses a sale. If you are only out return shipping that seems reasonable and I would just consider it the cost of learning. I have spent plenty of money on swords I should not have bought over the years and lost, but I learned from the experience and figure it was just part of the learning curve. To buy off ebay and expect to get a treasure every time is unrealistic. I would would think Brian's deleting the thread as it is better for everyone as the situation resolved itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 difficult situation. I agree with Chris' comments. If you buy a sword on ebay with a famous name, from someone knowledgeable (just check other items and feedback, if someone has sold a lot of swords it is likely he knows what he is doing) you should expect it is gimei. If the mei was correct the sword is worth a lot more than double what you paid. So if you think you know what you are doing and it is a genuine signature you more than doubled your money. I have made mistakes and sold great blades cheap (check past threads), Eric and all of has probably done the same. If the seller is refunding the price that seems very fair, if you had not bid maybe the under bidder would have won the sword and been happy, so the seller looses a sale. If you are only out return shipping that seems reasonable and I would just consider it the cost of learning. I have spent plenty of money on swords I should not have bought over the years and lost, but I learned from the experience and figure it was just part of the learning curve. To buy off ebay and expect to get a treasure every time is unrealistic. I would would think Brian's deleting the thread as it is better for everyone as the situation resolved itself. Why are you guys so keen to delete the thread? Why not let it die, is he a friend of yours? I didn't even know the mei had significance. I bought the sword because I liked the hamon and the koshire. But most of all because it was described as being in perfect condition as well. Im no expert but the flaws are very obvious, so it was a deceptive description. He is out a sale? so what, he gets the sword back to scam someone else but I lose $100 because of his dishonesty and have to wait 2 weeks to get my money back... Id have really appreciated a thread like this before I bid on it. I even searched here first because there are so many valuable opinions here. How is censoring factual information ever good for anything. Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 This story is getting better now, hes asking me to cancel the transaction and he will give me a refund when he gets the item. That will remove my buyer protection and ebay said underneath don't do it BEFORE you get refunded . I don't know what to say..... :? seems like a real scam getting worried :/ Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 wow, maybe I made a mistake by posting a reply. I was trying to be neutral. Yes I know Eric, but I know Mike, Grey, Barry, and a bunch of the other NMB members. I do not owe Eric any special treatment. I reread the description, I do not see it described as "being in perfect condition ", I see it described as " light surface scuffs/scratches/stains here & there". All descriptions/opinions can vary a bit. If you would have posted a link to this sword before you bid then we could have given our opinion on the mei if you wished or comment on its collectability/desirability. There are swords I have that other members probably do not care for and they have ones I would not have bought. All swords are different. If you want a sword in perfect condition you should only buy a sword that is in new fresh Japanese (or professional) polish, with a paper. I do not mean to discourage you as I (and most of us) went through the same learning process and made plenty of mistakes but I do not see the long term value of a thread arguing about the differences of opinions on exact condition when the seller has taken it back. It seems a fair outcome. If you search past threads there is plenty of advise to avoid eBay unless you are confident of your ability to tell a treasure from the trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hxv Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Trent, Canceling a transaction helps the seller not to have to pay the ebay fee for fully-refunded transactions. Having said that, he really is asking you to do things out-of-order, as you already noted. First, you need to get refunded, then you cancel the transaction. If he does not like it, just open a paypal claim. With pictures and documentation, paypal will most likely give you the refund, regardless of what the seller says. I *WOULD NOT* cancel the transaction until I get my refund. Can you post a few pictures of the sword as you received it and the link to the original ebay listing? That will help us see the condition of the sword and see if the ebay description is accurate. In the event of legitimate false advertisement, I happen to agree with you regarding keeping this thread, but of course, it's Brian's call. Even if you get your money back, it's still false advertisement. When you buy on ebay, if *ANY* seller falsely advertises, it's good for the membership to know. Even with financial products, there is always the disclaimer "Past performance is not indicative of future performance." ebay feedbacks are the same... On the other hand, until things bear out, please don't accuse anyone, especially the onwer (Brian) or Mods of this forum of harboring dishonorable behavior. I'm not taking sides...just giving you my thoughts. Regards, Hoanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickupero Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hi Trent, I won't comment on the situation about the blades description but he possibly wants to cancel the transaction for feedback reasons, I could definitely be wrong there. I will comment though that I have a couple clients that dealt with him in the past, one that met him in person and apparently he's a down to earth guy. I doubt he would try to scam you as this would most likely end his career, so you're not dealing with another Eric Roush. Best thing to do is pick up the phone and talk it out, emailing can sometimes be a poor method of communication, still its good to get things on paper but often times an old fashion verbal conversation can go a long way. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hi Trent, I won't comment on the situation about the blades description but he possibly wants to cancel the transaction for feedback reasons, I could definitely be wrong there.I will comment though that I have a couple clients that dealt with him in the past, one that met him in person and apparently he's a down to earth guy. I doubt he would try to scam you as this would most likely end his career, so you're not dealing with another Eric Roush. Best thing to do is pick up the phone and talk it out, emailing can sometimes be a poor method of communication, still its good to get things on paper but often times an old fashion verbal conversation can go a long way. Good luck. thanks at least that gives me piece of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hoanh he did post a link and pictures see his first post I think -- if all the communication is through eBay they have a record of what is agreed to. You are protected. If I get a commitment from a seller that he will "refund full price when item is returned" I have cancelled a transaction and make sure I have tracking for the return. If you do not like that let Eric know, and return it, have him confirm (through eBay) that he has it and will refund when cancelled, then you can cancel it and he will send a refund or ebay has all the info, you will be fine. A seller does not want to send a refund unless the sale is cancelled because if the buyer does not agree to cancel he is out fees. I have never had an issue if everything is through eBay as they bend over backward to help buyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Torano Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hey Guys, My two cents is I have bought several items from Eric and they have all been as described, I am not aware of any reason to "beware" of him. Not all deals are perfect and if you are going to buy on EBay you should be aware there are much worse situations waiting to happen. This is a very small community and I don't see anyone that is as invested in it as he is willing to risk his reputation over one sale. Art Torano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 wow, maybe I made a mistake by posting a reply. I was trying to be neutral. Yes I know Eric, but I know Mike, Grey, Barry, and a bunch of the other NMB members. I do not owe Eric any special treatment. I reread the description, I do not see it described as "being in perfect condition ", I see it described as " light surface scuffs/scratches/stains here & there". All descriptions/opinions can vary a bit. If you would have posted a link to this sword before you bid then we could have given our opinion on the mei if you wished or comment on its collectability/desirability. There are swords I have that other members probably do not care for and they have ones I would not have bought. All swords are different. If you want a sword in perfect condition you should only buy a sword that is in new fresh Japanese (or professional) polish, with a paper. I do not mean to discourage you as I (and most of us) went through the same learning process and made plenty of mistakes but I do not see the long term value of a thread arguing about the differences of opinions on exact condition when the seller has taken it back. It seems a fair outcome. If you search past threads there is plenty of advise to avoid eBay unless you are confident of your ability to tell a treasure from the trash. He said: Strong robust & flawless signed & dated Shinshinto Katana, Blade condition : generally very clean old polish very thick & healthy with no hagire/crack, no kizu/flaw, no chip, no bend, no blister, solid & sound beautiful strong thick blade mix with minor light surface scuffs/scratches/stains here & there otherwise there is nothing further, & absolutely nothing major at all ! I didn't realize that flawless, no chip and no bend was open to interpretation. Flawless is pretty similar to perfect wouldn't you say. The mistake was not with me, I presented the facts. This should be a cautionary example for him that people don't like wasting time and money. They can read this thread and take it for what it is. Id let it go if he paid me the return shipping as I would do if I were in his situation. I would be ashamed of my error and fully repair the situation. Not try to get out of even paying for any shipping. I appreciate your opinion but you make it sound like I made a newby mistake by buying from him at all as if I should have known he was a shark. Trent Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Trent, Canceling a transaction helps the seller not to have to pay the ebay fee for fully-refunded transactions. Having said that, he really is asking you to do things out-of-order, as you already noted. First, you need to get refunded, then you cancel the transaction. If he does not like it, just open a paypal claim. With pictures and documentation, paypal will most likely give you the refund, regardless of what the seller says. I *WOULD NOT* cancel the transaction until I get my refund. Can you post a few pictures of the sword as you received it and the link to the original ebay listing? That will help us see the condition of the sword and see if the ebay description is accurate. In the event of legitimate false advertisement, I happen to agree with you regarding keeping this thread, but of course, it's Brian's call. Even if you get your money back, it's still false advertisement. When you buy on ebay, if *ANY* seller falsely advertises, it's good for the membership to know. Even with financial products, there is always the disclaimer "Past performance is not indicative of future performance." ebay feedbacks are the same... On the other hand, until things bear out, please don't accuse anyone, especially the onwer (Brian) or Mods of this forum of harboring dishonorable behavior. I'm not taking sides...just giving you my thoughts. Regards, Hoanh Thank you for your reply I agree with all of it. Except I apologize if anyone felt like I was accusing anyone of anything. This is an enjoyable hobby and I just didn't like the idea of censorship and I wanted to get to the bottom of why it might occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Ekholm Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Even though if it said flawless in the description, you can see the condition in the pics that were in auction description. More marketing hype is to be expected when browsing in the eBay. That's why eBay is a tricky place to be shopping if you do not know what you are looking for. You can see good bit of notches and scratches in the pictures, by looking at them one could assume the blade will not be flawless but in the condition that pics show it to be? If you can get full refund and just be down 100$'s of shipping cost I think that is a good deal and I think it's very fair from Eric to offer that. I would advice to look more carefully into items before buying, that is the problem with eBay auctions as the time is usually very short and potentially there are multiple bidders. Sometimes you can think about purchases very long time and sometimes you have to make them fast. When you have to make them fast do as much research as possible before the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordGuyJoe Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hey Guys, My two cents is I have bought several items from Eric and they have all been as described, I am not aware of any reason to "beware" of him. Not all deals are perfect and if you are going to buy on EBay you should be aware there are much worse situations waiting to happen. This is a very small community and I don't see anyone that is as invested in it as he is willing to risk his reputation over one sale. Art Torano I, like Art, have dealt with Eric multiple times and all transactions have gone smoothly. It's up to Brian on whether this gets taken down, but I am confident that most dealers and collectors have had poor transactions at some time. My suggestion - take it for what it's worth - is that until you REALLY know what you're looking at, I'd avoid eBay for all purchasing. When i started, I liked to use it as translation practice and was a great place to develop an eye for a fake. Buy books, go to shows, participate here. You'll find in the long run, it will be time and money WELL spent - rather than your current guess-and-check method. You've more than likely got the nihonto "bug" and will completely disregard this advice and will wind up with a dozen swords and realize your collection has no direction. If you're really lucky, you'll not make any major mistakes and be able to shift your collection to a more focused area and not lose too much money. I speak from experience! Eitherway, it's your money, do with it what you will and this place is a great site to bounce swords off of BEFORE you buy. Good luck in your journey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hxv Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Trent, Can you post a picture of the bend? Regards, Hoanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 ALL sellers have some people that are unhappy with a sale or 2. Every one of them bar none. I don't want titles telling people to beware of someone unless he has multiple issues with many people and is confirmed to be a bad dealer. In Eric's case, many people know him, and he is known to be a decent dealer. I have only met him once, briefly. That doesn't mean some haven't, or won't, have issues with him. But we owe these sellers more than a title like you had. Therefore, in the interests of fair play, I will edit the original title to something less offensive, and leave the post up. It is then searchable by people loking for feedback. But a person also needs to go by a few transactions from a few people before they decide. An immediate offer to refund the purchase price is fair in any game. Shipping costs refunds are up to the seller. Seems to me he is even refunding you your original shipping cost, and you only have to pay to get it back. That is fairly standard and fair imho. I will also point out that compared to most auctions, he has pictured just about every part in detail. Anything not pictured, needs to be asked for. Not your fault, but he certainly isn't a scammer either. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail44 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hey Guys, My two cents is I have bought several items from Eric and they have all been as described, I am not aware of any reason to "beware" of him. Not all deals are perfect and if you are going to buy on EBay you should be aware there are much worse situations waiting to happen. This is a very small community and I don't see anyone that is as invested in it as he is willing to risk his reputation over one sale. Art Torano I, like Art, have dealt with Eric multiple times and all transactions have gone smoothly. It's up to Brian on whether this gets taken down, but I am confident that most dealers and collectors have had poor transactions at some time. My suggestion - take it for what it's worth - is that until you REALLY know what you're looking at, I'd avoid eBay for all purchasing. When i started, I liked to use it as translation practice and was a great place to develop an eye for a fake. Buy books, go to shows, participate here. You'll find in the long run, it will be time and money WELL spent - rather than your current guess-and-check method. You've more than likely got the nihonto "bug" and will completely disregard this advice and will wind up with a dozen swords and realize your collection has no direction. If you're really lucky, you'll not make any major mistakes and be able to shift your collection to a more focused area and not lose too much money. I speak from experience! Eitherway, it's your money, do with it what you will and this place is a great site to bounce swords off of BEFORE you buy. Good luck in your journey! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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