Tsuba advice and info welcome

[lastride]

Bought a few tsubas the past year, but dont have much info about them. Tryed too search the internet not many luck on that end then i stumbled on this forum, so here i am hope you people can help me out.

 

Thanks in advance for any help

 

Ben

 

(ps: sorry for any bad english not native)

[Mark]

Ben

 

welcome to the NMB. Great that you have an interest in tsuba. after a quick glance I wonder if #1 & #3 have had gold paint added? I am more of a blade collector so maybe I am off base, I am sure others will comment. I like the heianjo tsuba, it seems to be in good condition, my guess would be late 1500's or early 1600's. The last tsuba looks suspect, it may be a modern or cast copy.

 

As I said I am not an expert but wanted to add a comment as it is nice to have a new member

[lastride]

thanks for the input mark, any info is helpfull. Dont know much about tsuba know what i like too see an can spot most fakes, but thats about were my knowlege ends. just hope the sellers are honest about there product, bought at ebay they were all from trusted sellers.

 

ps i like the heianjo too its my best piece at the moment, it was worth every penny

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ben,

#1 might be gold paint (leaning strongly that way), # 3 is definitely gold paint and if you removed it the tsuba would be much nicer, and the last tsuba is definitely a cast repro.

Grey

[Antti]

Hi Ben,

 

Your last tsuba looks cast, with huge casting seams, if I see what I think I'm seeing. The third tsuba also looks a bit "modified". The Heianjo looks fine, and to me at least, clearly the most solid one you have.

 

I am a relative newcomer myself, so the more experienced guys can help you more. You can find a lot of info in the LINKS-section of this page.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[lastride]

thanks for the info so far guys

 

allready thought the last one was nothing special got it in a pack with 2 others sold them tho kept this 1 dont know why really.

 

grey i have too follow up questions 1 the nanban with the gold paint is the paint a bad sign (age authanticity etc) what would be the age in your opinion

2 what would you recoment for the gold removel

 

btb all photos were taken with flash enabled wenn i took em was getting dark

[John A Stuart]

Yes, the Heianjo tsuba is the one I would say was the best buy here. Of course it is a style that I prize. John

[lastride]

also bought these too there in the mail at the moment any info would be apriciated

[Antti]

Ben,

 

Let me be the first to say it. If you are serious about your new interest, take a time out, buy some books, study the subject, look through the inventories of good vendors, train your eye, and forget eBay, where these items came from I believe. You found this forum, and it could serve as your homebase for your hobby. The links-section contains a plethora of links to information pages and specialized vendors.

 

Take it slow my friend.

[lastride]

is ebay that bad then?

its about the only place i know i can get affordable pieces.

almost no locally.

and most other expert sellers have listings of over 250$ and that is kinda out of my price range.(im employed as a cook)

[Antti]

Ben,

 

There is a reason why eBay pieces are "affordable". The average quality of the items there is poor and there are a lot of people selling fakes. There are good items there as well, once in a while, but before you know how to recognize quality, you should really stay out. Instead, save your money, buy books, and perhaps a buy a good, solid tsuba once in a while, from a vendor that has a good reputation. There are quite a lot of vendors, with english websites, that specialize in Nihonto and Tosogu. The items are not always affordable, but they are authentic, solid pieces. Buy one good tsuba once in a while, instead of mass collecting stuff from eBay that turns out to be fakes, bad, or mediocore. Look through their inventories, study the pieces and train your eye. This is the better option. In my opinion, one solid, good piece is worth a lot more than a thousand bad ones. And remember, even if you cannot afford a piece, it is still a great opportunity to learn. I collect with a very, very tight budget myself.

 

Look at this as a good thing. You found this forum, which will help you a lot, and the Heianjo tsuba in your first post is solid, so you have something to build on.

 

I am a relative newcomer myself. I am not that good at recognizing quality yet, I am still in the beginning of the path that hopefully leads to competence one day. You are a cook, so I suggest you cook yourself something nice, sit down, and really think is collecting tsuba the thing you really want to do. And if you are sure, welcome to the path.

[Ken-Hawaii]

eBay isn't "bad," but it's really not for people who don't already have a pretty good idea of what they are seeing before they buy. I've done well with some purchases, but really badly with others.

 

Ben, please sign your name on every post, per Brian's rules.

 

Ken

[lastride]

antti

 

so far i only bought 8 tsubas in the past 2 years, that aint a lot i think and bought them becose i liked looking at them never even cared about authanticity but after a while you begin too wonder how old are they etc. the info you gave is something too think about though, im not like most of the collectors here i think. as in that it needs too be edo or before that, im contend with a meji era one as long as it good craftmanship en nice too look at like the heianjo.(aint earning alot of money as a cook, so beggers cant be choosers)

 

ken

thanks for the input

and sorry that i forgot the name thingy, im really new too this.

[Antti]

Ben,

 

It isnt that much about the "edo or before that". There are brilliant tsuba made even today. For example:

This will rock your world if you havent seen it already.

 

But I've said what I wanted to say. Everyone has their own style, and motivation and I respect that. And I wish you all the best, whatever you decide to do.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ben,

Many Namban of this style had gold overlay on areas of the surface. Yours looks too haphazard to be gold so I'm guessing gold paint. Paint never would have been original to the tsuba; added later to make the piece easier to sell on ebay.

If it is paint, you can try a paint remover. 1st place a tiny dot of remover on an inconspicuous spot to see if the paint lifts and to make sure that you aren't changing the patina of the iron. If all is well go ahead and carefully remove the rest. Clean the tsuba well with warm water and a soft brush after you're done.

Ditto what others have been saying about buying books, studying, and then buying quality. Your Heianjo is nice enough; the others are meh and you will get little joy in them as you learn more.

Grey

[lastride]

antti

 

thanks for the link, learned a lot from it

 

 

grey

any advice about books with wich too start or a must have?

[rkg]

Ben,

 

Welcome to the forum. In addition to getting some books, I'd highly recommend you find a way to look at a number of good tsuba IN HAND, preferably with somebody to tell you what you're looking at. At least in the states, most collectors don't mind the occasional get-together to study pieces, and if you're lucky there will be a study group somewhere nearby you can attend. the money spent to study before buying is worth it....

 

FWIW, buying on ebay can be a crapshoot even when you know what you are looking at - between the often poor images, ebay's fuzzification of submitted images that might have been good, dealers who deliberately obfuscate problems/condition issues with creative imaging/descriptions, and the rarity of pieces that are actually worth bidding on/are not stupidly priced beyond their worth looking for a bunny, there's just not much joy to be found there (especially of late). you might want to lay off for a while until you've studied some more.

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[Antti]

Ben,

 

There are plenty of topics of people asking for recommendations of tsuba books, so you should use the Search-function on the top of the page to find them.

I'll help you to get started:

 

http://www.ncjsc.org/ncjsc_publications.htm

"Tsuba, An Aesthetic Study" , very inexpensive, still very informative. A must have.

 

http://shop.nihonart.de/product_info.ph ... tsuba.html

http://shop.nihonart.de/product_info.ph ... ese-s.html

Two nice books, with great photos.

 

Also "Early Japanese Sword Guards - Sukashi tsuba" by Sasano is an excellent source, out of print though, and therefore expensive if you can find one.

 

You are in luck though, Grey has a great book shop with has a lot of rare, out of print editions. And great tsuba too

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/

[Grey Doffin]

Thank you Antti,

There are so many good to great books on tsuba; to name a few:

Tsuba Kanshoki. The later edition has both Japanese and English.

Tsuba Shusei

The Art Appreciation of Japanese Sword Fittings

The Kurokawa Institute book on tsuba

Ito's 3 books on the masters of Higo

Sasano's silver book

Gai So Shi by Robert haynes

 

And so many more. Not to plug my site but if you scroll through the fittings books there you'll get a good idea what's available.

Grey

[lastride]

thanks a bunch guys

 

rkg

i live in a small country and i think there arent alot of tsuba collectors here. tryed several searches for clubs etc..

too no avail. any aditional info too help me on that front will be helpful, then i know what i need too look for.

 

antti

orderd the first book you mentiont for a start, hope that helps me too see the differance fakes and works of art

 

 

if anyone would be so kind as to send me some pics of tsuba they have and know alot about, maybe that will help too see it too make the better choices. As far as it goes at the moment i know what i like too see when i look at a tsuba can kinda tell if its old or not but thats about it. any advice you can give me about smaller details i can look at would be apriciated.

[Antti]

Ben,

 

I am pretty sure there is some kind of a club or a community in Holland. Hopefully others can help. I mean I live in Finland and we have meeting next month.

Here is a specialized vendor in Netherlands:

http://www.tokensugita.com/

The guy responsible is Lody Duindam. Bought one of my few tsuba from him.

 

To have good pictures of tsuba, do what I did. Go to the Links, Commercial and make a nice bookmark collection of these sites. Then once in a while, go through the tsuba, see what school they are from, and train your eye, one tsuba at a time.

Here are just some of my favourite websites:

http://www.nihonto.com/itemsale.html

http://www.nihonto.us/

http://yakiba.com/welcome.htm

http://tetsugendo.com/

http://world.choshuya.co.jp/sale/tousougu/index.htm

http://www.aoijapan.com/

And there is a huge amount of others, in the Links section. I'll let you do the work. To see what members have, you should go through old topics of this forum, and there are hundreds. I've done it, it isnt fast but definetely helps.

 

Most fakes are fairly easy to spot, some are a lot harder and can deceive even a more experienced collector. Fake tsuba are cast in a mould, not forged, so for example, the metal is porous, there can be (but not always) casting seams visible on the sukashi, the edges seem "bulged", the seppa dai area looks "dead". Manu eBay sellers have fakes that use excessive amounts of Gold and Silver paint. If you make the effort, you'll learn how to spot them. Easier way for you is to use trusted vendors who will not have these fakes in their inventory.

 

Some tsuba come with papers from an organisation like the NBTHK or NTHK, where the tsuba has been evaluated by a group of experts, which also serve as authentication. Some info about papers:

http://www.nihontocraft.com/japanese_sword_papers.html

[lastride]

i found 3 photos on my comp of tsuba i used too have.

 

please coment on them as too if they were good and if so why?

And if not i will learn something of my mistakes.

 

btb sold them for about same price as i bought them, so if they are bad not an expensive lesson

[Soshin]

Hi Ben,

 

I think you are clear on what you currently have so I am not going to discuss it. If you're serious I would recommended you contact the European Branch of the NBTHK. Here is a link to their website: http://nbthk.net/NBTHK/NBTHK_Startseite.html. I suggest you examine the website in more detail they might not be meeting too far from you. I am a member of the American branch of the NBTHK since 2007. I also attend a semi-local Nihonto club in Baltimore. Check out my website (http://www.tsubaotaku.com/) it has four pages of tsuba and one kozuka on it. I am not a dealer just a collector and researcher so you will not find many items for sale on it but it has a lot of information and some nice photos. I hope you find this information helpful.